ike1024:

There's only one piece of hardware that actually matters.  Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing.

Ike: "I had to make that statement because you seemed to think that I was saying that I was saying no team should care about winning a conference championship.  I, of course, said no such thing and no one even paying marginal attention to my posts would think that I was saying that."

Ike:  "I never said that it wasn't exciting for a team to win its conference, or that fans shouldn't be excited, I said that it would then be a disappointment if that team didn't win the NC."

Ike: "Your disconnect with the reality of what is being said is truly astounding."

ROFL.

AbeFroman:

ike1024:

There's only one piece of hardware that actually matters.  Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing.

Ike: "I had to make that statement because you seemed to think that I was saying that I was saying no team should care about winning a conference championship.  I, of course, said no such thing and no one even paying marginal attention to my posts would think that I was saying that."

Ike:  "I never said that it wasn't exciting for a team to win its conference, or that fans shouldn't be excited, I said that it would then be a disappointment if that team didn't win the NC."

Ike: "Your disconnect with the reality of what is being said is truly astounding."

ROFL.

It's funny that you keep quoting things I say like they strengthen some position you have, but in reality, you aren't really showing anything.  People get excited all the time, but does that mean what they are excited about really means anything in the long run?

I would be excited to date a super hot, rich woman.  She would buy me stuff all the time and I would be happy for the time being.  But if we didn't get married, and I couldn't inherit all that wonderful wealth, then it wouldn't have really mattered that I dated her (I figured you'd maybe get this analogy because you seem to be conceited about whatever money you have).

So again, I ask you to point me to where I said that a team shouldn't be excited about winning a conference championship.  All I said was that they don't really mean anything.  People are rightfully excited about things that mean nothing all the time.  I get excited when I get a funny email, but what effect does that really have on my life?

AbeFroman:

ROFL.

It's unbelievable to me.  I actually think this is fun because the longer this goes on, the more chance there is for people to read these posts and laugh at you.  The best part is, I don't have to get frustrated, I can just read your posts and laugh.  I will soon, however, begin doing the same thing to you that you are doing to me (and others) and that too will make me laugh.  Honestly I really don't know anymore if you're just trying to win but you don't really have any good points so you have to make illogical leaps by stating things I never said and creating implications that aren't there, or if you're really this stupid.  I'll assume for now that it's the former, but either way I'm certainly ROFL as well.

You're really struggling and you don't make any sense.... you are back-peddling so fast I can hardly see you any more.

I guess if you want to get philosophical and say that a conference championship doesn't mean anything but is something that is okay to get excited about, I think it would be fair to throw a national championship (or any athletic accomplishment for that matter) in the same bag.  What makes a national championship so much more life-changing and profound in the big picture than a conference championship?  Is there some kind of huge monetary reward or a free pass into heaven that comes with a national title?  Please elaborate. 

Milkman:

Let it go, ike. Wisconsin has won a couple conference titles recently so Abe wants to claim that those are incredibly meaningful. He has also discredited Final Four appearances. Not coincidentally, Crean has one of those and Bo doesn't. Whatever best fits into Abe's logic is what he bases his arguments on, regardless of any and all other factors. He doesn't listen to anything anyone says so it's pointless to argue with him.

I can't believe he didn't get banned and we're going to let him ruin this board too.

Please, Wade has a final four appearance, it has nothing to do with Crean versus Bo because we saw Crean's ability to advance in the tournament once Wade left town.

AbeFroman:

ike1024:

There's only one piece of hardware that actually matters.  Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing.

Ike: "I had to make that statement because you seemed to think that I was saying that I was saying no team should care about winning a conference championship.  I, of course, said no such thing and no one even paying marginal attention to my posts would think that I was saying that."

Ike:  "I never said that it wasn't exciting for a team to win its conference, or that fans shouldn't be excited, I said that it would then be a disappointment if that team didn't win the NC."

Ike: "Your disconnect with the reality of what is being said is truly astounding."

ROFL.

haha... just blowing in the wind

U Dub Dub:

AbeFroman:

ike1024:

There's only one piece of hardware that actually matters.  Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing.

Ike: "I had to make that statement because you seemed to think that I was saying that I was saying no team should care about winning a conference championship.  I, of course, said no such thing and no one even paying marginal attention to my posts would think that I was saying that."

Ike:  "I never said that it wasn't exciting for a team to win its conference, or that fans shouldn't be excited, I said that it would then be a disappointment if that team didn't win the NC."

Ike: "Your disconnect with the reality of what is being said is truly astounding."

ROFL.

haha... just blowing in the wind

Even Carlos Zambrano can figure out that the point I was making was that the ultimate goal of a team is not to win a conference championship, not that it's not nice to win one - oh wait, you wouldn't have to imply that if you read the other 40 posts I've written and not use one sentence Abe quoted that was taken out-of-context.

Hey Abe: I would pick better disciples.  This guy is just making you look even worse.  But on the bright side, it must be nice to have a follower, so I'll let you bask for now.

ike1024:

 I think it has increased the exposure and recruiting, and I don't care if they ever win the Big East, if they are going to win the NC.  You don't think it's a sign of mediocrity to be satisfied with a conference championship and not want more?  I do.  I never said it wouldn't make me happy, just that it doesn't matter if I'm disappointed come the beginning of April.

Since when does winning your conference preclude you from winning a NC?  Secondly, where did I say that I'm satisfied with conference championships and don't want to win a NC?  Lastly, how do you think mediocre BE finishes will help you win a NC down the road?

Of course everyone knows the ultimate goal in the NC... that's not the debate, it's you stating that "Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing."  My point is how stupid that sounds and it's based off the fact that UW does win them and MU doesn't, so they are not relevant to MU fans... unless they win one in the coming years... then you will see the tides change.

U Dub Dub:

Of course everyone knows the ultimate goal in the NC... that's not the debate, it's you stating that "Conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing."  My point is how stupid that sounds and it's based off the fact that UW does win them and MU doesn't, so they are not relevant to MU fans... unless they win one in the coming years... then you will see the tides change.

Because I actually am a UW fan also, and I really like the two teams equally, I really have no interest in it one way or another.  But since you brought it up, I was excited that UW won the Big 10, but it meant nothing to me when they lost to Davidson.  In fact, I was much more upset when they lost than I was happy when they beat Illinois (or won the regular season).  Are you telling me that on Saturday morning you said to yourself: "Well I don't really care that they lost to Davidson even though they had a legit shot at the final four and maybe more because they won the Big Ten?"  If you are, then you are the exact person that strives for mediocrity that I was talking about before and my point still stands - conference championships are nice, but they mean nothing (I'll add this) in the grand scheme.  How many people remember who won the Big Ten in 2003?  No one cares who won the Big Ten in 2003.  But I'll bet an awful lot of people know that Syracuse won the NC.  That's what people care about - that's why my point makes sense.

Of course I was disappointed that Saturday but that is not that point we are talking about here... everyone wants their team to win a NC, but you were trying to say conference championships mean nothing.  Now that you've admitted to being excited UW won the Big 10 (hence changing your stance), I'm done here.

U Dub Dub:

Of course I was disappointed that Saturday but that is not that point we are talking about here... everyone wants their team to win a NC, but you were trying to say conference championships mean nothing.  Now that you've admitted to being excited UW won the Big 10 (hence changing your stance), I'm done here.

You're an idiot.

I explained a few posts ago how conference championships don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things (which is precisely the debate) and being excited about your team winning one are two entirely different things.  It's not that hard to understand.  Perhaps I'm being stubborn and not stating a point that I thought was obvious.  Yes, conference championships mean something.  Taken out-of-context, what Abe quoted above would make it seem like that is not what I believe.  What the argument was, if you would read more than the one post, is that I don't really care if Marquette wins a conference championship because that's not what the goal is.  The ultimate goal is for them to win a NC, regardless if they ever win the Big East.  If they win the NC, I'm not going to say: "Wow, I know they won the NC, but it just doesn't mean as much because they didn't win the Big East."  That's idiotic.  You're right, you should be done here.

ike1024:

U Dub Dub:

Of course I was disappointed that Saturday but that is not that point we are talking about here... everyone wants their team to win a NC, but you were trying to say conference championships mean nothing.  Now that you've admitted to being excited UW won the Big 10 (hence changing your stance), I'm done here.

You're an idiot.

I explained a few posts ago how conference championships don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things (which is precisely the debate) and being excited about your team winning one are two entirely different things.  It's not that hard to understand.  Perhaps I'm being stubborn and not stating a point that I thought was obvious.  Yes, conference championships mean something.  Taken out-of-context, what Abe quoted above would make it seem like that is not what I believe.  What the argument was, if you would read more than the one post, is that I don't really care if Marquette wins a conference championship because that's not what the goal is.  The ultimate goal is for them to win a NC, regardless if they ever win the Big East.  If they win the NC, I'm not going to say: "Wow, I know they won the NC, but it just doesn't mean as much because they didn't win the Big East."  That's idiotic.  You're right, you should be done here.

Programs like MU and UW can certainly strive to win a NC, but I think we need to be realistic.  Neither has come very close in the "modern" CBB landscape and there is a pretty good chance we will never see it in our lifetime.  Heck.... We might never see MU win the BE in our lifetime (RIP Robert).... 

I'm not saying they shouldn't shoot for it, but to take a "NC or Bust" type approach is pretty delusional. 

It's not that difficult.  Conference championships don't mean nothing -- they are terrific goals of every team.  On the path to even greater goals.  If you win the Big Ten conference in a year when it is a mediocre conference, it still means something.  It just doesn't mean as much as what Abe wants it to mean.  When your team still gets outperformed year after year by worse seeds, you have to come to the conclusion that the Conference Championship is not signifying as much as you would like.  All conferences have to have a champion...even one as lackluster as the Big Ten.  

The Big East was tougher, and winning it would be huge.  Finishing in the top 3 would be huge.  But if we win it (or finish in the top 3) and then bow out in the first or second round, then we haven't accomplished much.  It wouldn't be nothing -- but it wouldn't be the relevancy we are striving for. 

Kids Brother:

It's not that difficult.  Conference championships don't mean nothing -- they are terrific goals of every team.  On the path to even greater goals.  If you win the Big Ten conference in a year when it is a mediocre conference, it still means something.  It just doesn't mean as much as what Abe wants it to mean.  When your team still gets outperformed year after year by worse seeds, you have to come to the conclusion that the Conference Championship is not signifying as much as you would like.  All conferences have to have a champion...even one as lackluster as the Big Ten.  

The Big East was tougher, and winning it would be huge.  Finishing in the top 3 would be huge.  But if we win it (or finish in the top 3) and then bow out in the first or second round, then we haven't accomplished much.  It wouldn't be nothing -- but it wouldn't be the relevancy we are striving for. 

 

The BE and B10 both kind of sucked this year (5th and 6th in RPI respectively)... no sugar-coating that.  I would probably give a slight edge to the BE this year, all things considered.... the B10 just had too much turmoil/turnover at Iowa, Michigan, Minny, and Indiana.  (The B10 was ranked higher the two previous years, so saying the BE is tougher in general is very subjective without much substance to back it up)  I think we would have finished somewhere in the 3rd-5th range in the B10.  We would have created some match-up problems with some teams and would have been exposed against others.... same as in the BE.

I guess everybody has their own expectations, but if we won the regular season BE title and then lost in the 2nd round I would consider that a pretty good year.  Many of you think conference titles don't mean much, what about arbitrary/imaginary titles like "Sweet 16", "Elite 8", and "Final Four"?.... I guess my take is that it is nice to make it far in the tourney, but you either win it or you don't.... same with conference titles.  We could finish 2nd in the BE, 2nd in the BE tourney, and make the Final Four and we still wouldn't really have won anything when it comes right down to it.... basically a string of moral victories (which aren't the end of the world- would still be considered a highly successful year here at MU).