...glad we gave up on him.

T'ski

It happens.

That trade just gets worse by the minute. Not Melvin's finest moment, for sure.

Then again, Eveland has a long way to go to establish this is legit, right?

Einsteinhood:

It happens.

That trade just gets worse by the minute. Not Melvin's finest moment, for sure.

Then again, Eveland has a long way to go to establish this is legit, right?

was that the worst trade Melvin has ever made for Milwaukee? gotta be right?

CardinalFan:

was that the worst trade Melvin has ever made for Milwaukee? gotta be right?

Einsteinhood:

CardinalFan:

was that the worst trade Melvin has ever made for Milwaukee? gotta be right?

Yeah, it's headed that way. Estrada was largely useless, Vargas was a decent 5th starter, nothing more and Aquino wasn't worth the effort and we gave up a solid 4th starter in Davis. If Eveland develops into a solid mid to back rotation guy, that was a very bad deal. As it is, it wasn't very good, but not terrible.

Hey, at least we can rest our faith in.....Guillermo Mota.

That was a bad trade, but as far as Eveland goes, he had a really poor year last year too.  Considering how fed up everyone was with him in 2006, I can't believe he would still be here getting the kind of chance he's getting with Oakland in 2008.  He was probably going to be shipped off somewhere eventually, and I doubt Melvin would've been able to flip him for anyone useful given his 06 and 07 performances.

I wasnt a fan of him when he made his jump from AA to the majors, but I think that it was a huge mistake letting him go (in retrospect). I cant really blame Melvin for it, but Im certainly frustrated with it. Imagine how he would be if he had his sweet time to mature in AAA instead of coming up directly to the majors.

But I can honestly say I was calling for his head in 03 (I think it was) when he had an ERA above like 8. Meh, bad deal, but I realize it in retrospect so I cant fault the management.

In 3 home starts his ERA is 0.92, in 4 road starts it's 4.98. 

klwillis45:

In 3 home starts his ERA is 0.92, in 4 road starts it's 4.98. 

Who would have thought that a ballpark that is actually a cavernous football stadium with nowhere for the wind to blow out would turn a AAAA pitcher into Tom Glavine? Not me. Solution: Move the walls at Miller Park to 600 ft. and make all our pitchers super-prospects.

Melvin has shipped out more than a few pitchers who were decent enough to make it in the bigs without getting much of anything in return.  Davis, Eveland, Thatcher, JDLR, and I know there is one or two others who could have helped us over the last two years if we had stuch with them and had the development staff to get their best stuff out of them.  I know none of them are stars, but if you look at who we are throwing out now in our 4 and 5 spots and how mediocre the bullpen has been the last few years it sure would have been worth keepins some of these guys around.  Even the Bush/Jackson/Linebrink type guys he has been able to bring in have been uninspiring in the least.  Also, for all the great work we have done in drafting and developing position players, we sure haven't done it on the pitching end.  That is Melvin's biggest flaw as our GM so far. Between that and sticking with Yost he has pretty much undone all the good things he has done for this organization.

rockadocious2:

Melvin has shipped out more than a few pitchers who were decent enough to make it in the bigs without getting much of anything in return.  Davis, Eveland, Thatcher, JDLR, and I know there is one or two others who could have helped us over the last two years if we had stuch with them and had the development staff to get their best stuff out of them.  I know none of them are stars, but if you look at who we are throwing out now in our 4 and 5 spots and how mediocre the bullpen has been the last few years it sure would have been worth keepins some of these guys around.  Even the Bush/Jackson/Linebrink type guys he has been able to bring in have been uninspiring in the least.  Also, for all the great work we have done in drafting and developing position players, we sure haven't done it on the pitching end.  That is Melvin's biggest flaw as our GM so far. Between that and sticking with Yost he has pretty much undone all the good things he has done for this organization.

No one wanted Eveland around at the end of his time here and JDLR, everyone wanted to drive him to the airport.  I am glad those guys have found a way to help another team, but those guys stunk here.  Some guys turn it around with a new team, that is just the way it goes some times.  I would take CV and Parra anyday over the guys you mentioned.  I hated watching Vargas and Davis pitch, talk about getting in a 45 minute nap without missing the Brewers hit in that inning.

rockadocious2:

Melvin has shipped out more than a few pitchers who were decent enough to make it in the bigs without getting much of anything in return.  Davis, Eveland, Thatcher, JDLR, and I know there is one or two others who could have helped us over the last two years if we had stuch with them and had the development staff to get their best stuff out of them.  I know none of them are stars, but if you look at who we are throwing out now in our 4 and 5 spots and how mediocre the bullpen has been the last few years it sure would have been worth keepins some of these guys around.  Even the Bush/Jackson/Linebrink type guys he has been able to bring in have been uninspiring in the least.  Also, for all the great work we have done in drafting and developing position players, we sure haven't done it on the pitching end.  That is Melvin's biggest flaw as our GM so far. Between that and sticking with Yost he has pretty much undone all the good things he has done for this organization.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Davis is a #4 starter, which is a dime a dozen. Sure, he'd be better than Villanueva or Bush RIGHT NOW, but you have to be able to see what the youngsters will do.

Eveland was a throw-in in the trade from Milwaukee to Arizona and then a throw-in when he went from Arizona to Oakland. 2 years after the fact, it's easy to bemoan his loss. At the time, not so much.

De La Rosa is now with Colorado. When he was here, everyone hated him. We got a needed part for him in '06 in Tony Graffanino.

Does anyone know that Thatcher has a 6.75 ERA with San Diego this year? He has allowed 12 runs in 16 innings. Not to mention allowing 3 of 5 inherited runners to score. I haven't seen anybody bring that up this year. Wonder why?

brewguru:

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

You could have stopped right there as far as I am concerned.  This revisionist critique is silly.  All the guys mentioned were, to varying degrees, not lamented when they were dealt.  To come back to this now, when Eveland is doing OK, ignores the situation as it presented itself at the time. 

82 Brew:

rockadocious2:

Melvin has shipped out more than a few pitchers who were decent enough to make it in the bigs without getting much of anything in return.  Davis, Eveland, Thatcher, JDLR, and I know there is one or two others who could have helped us over the last two years if we had stuch with them and had the development staff to get their best stuff out of them.  I know none of them are stars, but if you look at who we are throwing out now in our 4 and 5 spots and how mediocre the bullpen has been the last few years it sure would have been worth keepins some of these guys around.  Even the Bush/Jackson/Linebrink type guys he has been able to bring in have been uninspiring in the least.  Also, for all the great work we have done in drafting and developing position players, we sure haven't done it on the pitching end.  That is Melvin's biggest flaw as our GM so far. Between that and sticking with Yost he has pretty much undone all the good things he has done for this organization.

No one wanted Eveland around at the end of his time here and JDLR, everyone wanted to drive him to the airport.  I am glad those guys have found a way to help another team, but those guys stunk here.  Some guys turn it around with a new team, that is just the way it goes some times.  I would take CV and Parra anyday over the guys you mentioned.  I hated watching Vargas and Davis pitch, talk about getting in a 45 minute nap without missing the Brewers hit in that inning.

Why is it that Davis, Eveland, JDLR and others have had more success under different teams?  I understand these guys aren't world beaters, but I have not seen the Brewers be sufficiently competent in getting the most out of the pitchers that they have had here.  Especially starters, and especially their own guys on the farm.  Yes, we were successful with Kolb and Turnbow, but those didn't last.  We almost immediately wrecked Rogers arm, and save for Gallardo, have not developed any quality starters over quite a time now.

 I would in no way have Melvin's head for this, just pointing out some instances where he has made mistakes.  If most of those mistakes are of the pitching variety, then you have a trend.  The Brewers cannot be a successful organization without developing their own top quality pitchers.  Who knows, the problem may also lie with Maddux or the developmenal staff.  If it is, though, Melvin must recognize it and make a change.

rockadocious2:

Why is it that Davis, Eveland, JDLR and others have had more success under different teams?  I understand these guys aren't world beaters, but I have not seen the Brewers be sufficiently competent in getting the most out of the pitchers that they have had here.  Especially starters, and especially their own guys on the farm.  Yes, we were successful with Kolb and Turnbow, but those didn't last.  We almost immediately wrecked Rogers arm, and save for Gallardo, have not developed any quality starters over quite a time now.

 I would in no way have Melvin's head for this, just pointing out some instances where he has made mistakes.  If most of those mistakes are of the pitching variety, then you have a trend.  The Brewers cannot be a successful organization without developing their own top quality pitchers.  Who knows, the problem may also lie with Maddux or the developmenal staff.  If it is, though, Melvin must recognize it and make a change.

I think you're raising two separate points here without distinguishing them.

(1) Comparing pitchers the Brewers have drafted (Rogers, Gallardo,. Eveland)

vs.

(2) Comparing pitchers the Brewers have not drafted (Davis, JDLR, Turnbow, Kolb)

Those are two different types of player development that require different analyses.

First, regarding Davis, the Brewers definitely got better usage out of him than the Dbacks have -- Davis' 2003-2005 as a whole cannot be compared to what Davis did for Arizona in 2007. 2006 was a thoroughly mediocre year for Davis, and although that level of production seems welcome in our rotation now, Melvin didn't really make a mistake by trading Davis after a mediocre year. That was what it was -- we needed a catcher, and although that move backfired, Melvin knew what it took to get a catcher.

I think it's fair to say that the Brewers got very good and important usage from Davis as a stopgap during the development years.

Second, regarding JDLR, how long were the Brewers supposed to work with him? He had one decent year out of two and a half seasons with the Crew, and he's not exactly a young pitcher -- he's now 27 years old. What do you think the likelihood is of someone of JDLR's caliber breaking out and pitching several consistently good seasons after 27?

 Third, Eveland is probably a legitimate beef in the development department, but then again, when he was called up the Brewers were in the midst of shifting around bullpen slots, and I distinctly remember Eveland being billed not as anything spectacular, but as a fine option for a bullpen stopgap. People forget that he pitched at a better level in the bullpen in 2005 before moving to the rotation in 2006. Perhaps that was the Brewers' mistake; but, I am hard-pressed to criticize Melvin now for a bullpen move he needed to make in 2005.

Now, Eveland is much younger than JDLR (24), and his development now indicates that perhaps he could have been a low rotation starter, but then again, who knows if that would have happened during his tenure in Milwaukee's organization. Again, even if Melvin's Estrada trade looks bad now, I'm a little hard pressed to fully criticize him because at the time we needed a catcher and if throwing in a young left-hander that struggled in the rotation (to that point) was necessary, well, so be it.