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Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

Last post 05-19-2008 11:39 AM by mrusso. 59 replies.
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  • 05-10-2008 12:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    wisblue:

    Thank you for some raw numbers to back up my assertion that adding Mike Cameron to the lineup would be just like adding a second Bill Hall. Exactly what an already imbalanced, dysfunctional lineup needed!! Talk all you want about Ned Yost as a manager, but nobody can win with a lineup like this unless you have exceptional pitching and defense. And, we know how the Brewers stack up there.

    I added some further criteria to my plate approach analysis here. What I questioned is, how much an extra base hit should be counted as the goal of PA -- that is, a batter's first goal is to get on base, and perhaps rather than getting a hit, the batter's best goal, or best possible outcome, could be getting to second without needing a sacrifice or a stolen base. So, on some level, I'd like to see what adding extra base hits does to the value of our club, so I did....

    ...here's what I found....

    One amendment to this list I would like to also suggest is utilizing the number of extra base hits as an analysis of the plate approach. Part of me wonders if it would be best to consider that a player's plate approach might best be judged by (1) the ability to get on base, (2) the ability to collect extra bases (i.e., get to second without requiring an SB or sacrifice), (3) number of pitches, (4) number of hits, and (5) number of walks.

    One could argue that given two players that hit and get on base equally, the player that collects more extra base hits is more valuable because of their ability to get to second.

    Here's how the Brewers look in XBH/PA, and here's how that changes our rankings of plate approaches:

    Adjusted: XBH

    Braun: 10.5% (16/152)

    Hall: 8.9% (13/145)

    Cameron: 8.5% (4/47)

    Kendall: 8.1% (10/124)

    Weeks: 7.4% (12/163)

    Fielder: 7.4% (11/149)

    Hart: 7.1% (10/141)

    Hardy: 3.0% (4/132)

     Adjusted Rankings

    Fielder: 19

    Kendall: 20

    Hall: 22 (.278)

    Cameron: 22 (.277)

    Weeks: 23

    Hardy: 24

    Hart: 25 (.357)

    Braun: 25 (.296)

    What is interesting about this shift is that Fielder and Kendall remain the most valuable batters based on plate approaches, even considering their ability to hit extra base hits. Cameron and Hall jump up to the middle of the order -- even with their shortcomings to get on base, their slugging ability might make their vacations on the basepaths more meaningful. Oddly enough, Weeks remains at 5, Hardy and Hart fall to the bottom of the order, and even his ability to slug an extra base hit in 10% of his PA does not bring Braun out of the 8th spot (although now he's tied with Hart, who is arguably more valuable because of his OBP all together....)

    Cameron becomes a more valuable batter for the middle of the order when we consider his ability to get to second via extra base hit; added to the rest of his plate approach, extra base hits increase his value, just as the value of XBH increases Hall's line up position. Oddly enough, Hart's current power woes drop him in the line up, and Hardy is dropped as well because of his inability to hit for power.

    I don't know what entirely to conclude from all of this --- I don't want to be seen as making any grand claims, but I wonder what a modified line up based off of this analysis would loook like. To get rid of the GIDP problems, for instance, I'd bat Kendall first and Fielder second. Then, I'd swap Hart for Hall because of Hart's OBP....here's the line up we'd get:

     

    1. Kendall

    2. Fielder

    3. Hart

    4. Cameron

    5. Weeks

    6. Hardy

    7. Hall

    8. Braun

     

    Obviously Braun's value increases once he gets more hits, takes more pitches, and gets on base better. His value is difficult to judge right now because he's not doing much well. But I could eventually see swapping him for Cameron in this line up, or I'd also like to see what he could do leading off, with Fielder second....

    ....just some thoughts....nothing really conclusive....

    BIGGER BATS HIT MORE HOME RUNS!





    If prior to March 1, the Player and the Club have not agreed upon the terms of the contract, then on or before 10 days after said March 1, the Club shall have the right by written notice to the Player to renew this contract for the period of one year.
  • 05-10-2008 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

     I was at the game yesterday and saw Cameron's average drop near/below the Mendoza line. He was terrible at the plate. Just sky high pop-ups when he does connect. I'd advocate pulling him from the lineup altogether He's not patient, has a terrible OBP. In the 5th inning, we should have scored a run or two, but thanks to Gwynn getting caught stealing by a yard and Cameron popping out, it was 2 men getting on base and a wash of an inning. I can't see keeping Cameron out there while under .200.

    C.U.@summerfest. Geddy is a Brewer fan too.
  • 05-10-2008 6:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    geddymd72:

     I was at the game yesterday and saw Cameron's average drop near/below the Mendoza line. He was terrible at the plate. Just sky high pop-ups when he does connect. I'd advocate pulling him from the lineup altogether He's not patient, has a terrible OBP. In the 5th inning, we should have scored a run or two, but thanks to Gwynn getting caught stealing by a yard and Cameron popping out, it was 2 men getting on base and a wash of an inning. I can't see keeping Cameron out there while under .200.

    I would have to completely agree.  Put Gwynn in center and bat him 2nd....

    Cameron just looks horrible at the plate right now....

  • 05-16-2008 11:35 AM In reply to

    • mrusso
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-31-2008
    • San Antonio
    • Posts 703

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    Mil2BrewCrewRWFan23:

    Now a lot of fans are clamming up now and got nothing to say now. No rants tonite! Where are you all?

    Gone...Good.

    This is the type of resilency and perserverence that all teams on the brink of a Championship has to go through. Many of you lose sight of that.

    The losing streak is gone! Great at bats in the ninth. Does that look like a team who has quit on their manager!? Does it!? Did Yost lose this tonite!? Did Doug Melvin?

    Now what are you got to complain about tonite! The crowd was yoked up and Weeks came through...

    Love to see it. Funny how a little encouragement helps....on a young team that is sliding.

    You all must learn from this. Weeks mentioned you were loud and helpful....

     NOW STAY THAT WAY!!!!

    It helps... 

     

     

    Just revisited this post.......I remembered it & knew Weeks hasn't done squat since then.  I believe he was this 1 hit away from being yanked from the leadoff spot.  He got the hit, thus another month as leadoff - regardless of results.  Haven't seen any Freeway rants on his boy either lately.  Could it be because.........

     

    Rickie Weeks

    MLB Rankings

    • Runs        9th
    • BBs         19th
    • SOs         34th
    • OBP        72nd
    • BA           91st

     

    NL Second Basemen Statistics       (hint:  look at the bottom of both lists to find Rickie) 

    National League Sortable Stats: AVG
    Click on column header to sort by that category.
    NAME TEAM P AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SF SH OBP OPS SLG AVG
    C. Utley PHI 2B 161 33 51 12 1 14 30 19 25 3 0 3 0 .399 1.064 .665 .317
    D. Uggla FLA 2B 147 30 44 13 1 12 29 19 42 1 0 2 0 .382 1.028 .646 .299
    O. Hudson ARI 2B 128 21 38 8 3 3 23 13 14 2 0 1 2 .364 0.841 .477 .297
    B. Phillips CIN 2B 153 23 44 10 2 7 19 11 29 6 2 1 0 .333 0.849 .516 .288
    M. DeRosa CHC 2B 129 24 37 7 0 3 22 22 30 2 0 3 1 .399 0.810 .411 .287
    K. Johnson ATL 2B 126 20 35 9 0 5 16 14 23 4 2 2 2 .345 0.813 .468 .278
    F. Lopez WAS 2B 130 13 35 5 0 1 15 15 23 4 1 1 0 .347 0.678 .331 .269
    L. Castillo NYM 2B 108 16 28 3 1 0 8 18 11 7 0 0 3 .370 0.676 .306 .259
    T. Iguchi SD 2B 162 18 41 6 1 1 14 17 33 6 0 0 0 .324 0.645 .321 .253
    F. Sanchez PIT 2B 160 16 40 9 0 1 21 6 22 0 0 2 2 .278 0.603 .325 .250
    NAME TEAM P AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SF SH OBP OPS SLG AVG
    J. Kent LAD 2B 123 14 30 6 1 4 20 7 16 0 0 1 0 .288 0.695 .407 .244
    R. Weeks MIL 2B 155 31 29 6 1 5 13 23 30 7 1 0 0 .315 0.650 .335 .187

     

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    MLB Sortable Stats: AVG
    Click on column header to sort by that category.
    NAME TEAM P AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SF SH OBP OPS SLG AVG
    M. Grudzielanek KC 2B 119 15 38 9 0 0 4 7 14 1 1 0 1 .367 0.762 .395 .319
    C. Utley PHI 2B 161 33 51 12 1 14 30 19 25 3 0 3 0 .399 1.064 .665 .317
    J. Lopez SEA 2B 165 20 52 10 1 2 21 3 9 2 1 8 4 .313 0.737 .424 .315
    D. Pedroia BOS 2B 180 21 55 14 0 1 21 10 18 4 0 2 3 .342 0.742 .400 .306
    D. Uggla FLA 2B 147 30 44 13 1 12 29 19 42 1 0 2 0 .382 1.028 .646 .299
    I. Kinsler TEX 2B 161 30 48 11 0 3 19 12 25 11 0 3 4 .352 0.774 .422 .298
    O. Hudson ARI 2B 128 21 38 8 3 3 23 13 14 2 0 1 2 .364 0.841 .477 .297
    B. Phillips CIN 2B 153 23 44 10 2 7 19 11 29 6 2 1 0 .333 0.849 .516 .288
    M. DeRosa CHC 2B 129 24 37 7 0 3 22 22 30 2 0 3 1 .399 0.810 .411 .287
    K. Johnson ATL 2B 126 20 35 9 0 5 16 14 23 4 2 2 2 .345 0.813 .468 .278
    NAME TEAM P AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SF SH OBP OPS SLG AVG
    P. Polanco DET 2B 132 19 36 7 0 2 13 12 7 2 0 0 1 .347 0.718 .371 .273
    A. Hill TOR 2B 160 15 43 12 0 2 18 12 24 3 1 1 3 .330 0.711 .381 .269
    F. Lopez WAS 2B 130 13 35 5 0 1 15 15 23 4 1 1 0 .347 0.678 .331 .269
    A. Iwamura TB 2B 166 24 44 5 1 3 13 17 34 2 1 2 1 .330 0.691 .361 .265
    B. Roberts BAL 2B 151 21 40 11 1 3 15 21 29 11 4 1 0 .353 0.764 .411 .265
    L. Castillo NYM 2B 108 16 28 3 1 0 8 18 11 7 0 0 3 .370 0.676 .306 .259
    T. Iguchi SD 2B 162 18 41 6 1 1 14 17 33 6 0 0 0 .324 0.645 .321 .253
    F. Sanchez PIT 2B 160 16 40 9 0 1 21 6 22 0 0 2 2 .278 0.603 .325 .250
    B. Harris MIN 2B 125 20 31 6 0 2 9 11 33 0 0 1 4 .312 0.656 .344 .248
    J. Kent LAD 2B 123 14 30 6 1 4 20 7 16 0 0 1 0 .288 0.695 .407 .244
    NAME TEAM P AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SF SH OBP OPS SLG AVG
    M. Ellis OAK 2B 153 20 37 8 2 3 13 19 18 5 2 1 1 .328 0.707 .379 .242
    R. Cano NYY 2B 150 12 31 5 0 4 12 9 16 0 3 0 0 .256 0.576 .320 .207
    J. Uribe CWS 2B 116 13 23 6 0 3 15 9 20 0 0 0 2 .262 0.590 .328 .198
    A. Cabrera CLE 2B 112 13 22 5 0 1 13 14 27 0 1 1 2 .289 0.557 .268 .196
    R. Weeks MIL 2B 155 31 29 6 1 5 13 23 30 7 1 0 0 .315 0.650 .335 .187

    Only players who have qualified for the batting title are displayed. (In order to qualify for the batting title a player must average at least 3.1 plate appearances for every game his team has played.)

      Statistical Information provided by:
    -->

     

     

  • 05-16-2008 11:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    I remembered it & knew Weeks hasn't squat since then

    Weeks was 0-2 with 2 walks yesterday.

    Is that a bad day?

  • 05-16-2008 12:15 PM In reply to

    • mrusso
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-31-2008
    • San Antonio
    • Posts 703

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    Daubs:

    Weeks was 0-2 with 2 walks yesterday.

    Is that a bad day?

     

    Have you reviewed the numbers above & compared them to his peers?  If so, is that a bad season so far? 

    See, the cat & mouse game you're playing with me is the same one Yost plays .....keeping Weeks at leadoff.  One game-winning RBI gains him how many more weeks of futility at leadoff?  Because he walked twice yesterday, he stays in the leadoff spot, EVEN with the numbers posted above?  That's saying you base success on one day events every week or two vs. on the season stats overall.   

  • 05-16-2008 12:30 PM In reply to

    • fp3
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-30-2007
    • Posts 443

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    Weeks lovers, he is have a terrible season.  ADMIT IT!!!!  Don't worry though, Hall is right there with him.  They both suck.

  • 05-16-2008 12:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?

    mrusso:

    Daubs:

    Weeks was 0-2 with 2 walks yesterday.

    Is that a bad day?

     

    Have you reviewed the numbers above & compared them to his peers?  If so, is that a bad season so far? 

    See, the cat & mouse game you're playing with me is the same one Yost plays .....keeping Weeks at leadoff.  One game-winning RBI gains him how many more weeks of futility at leadoff?  Because he walked twice yesterday, he stays in the leadoff spot, EVEN with the numbers posted above?  That's saying you base success on one day events every week or two vs. on the season stats overall.   

    Who else hits leadoff?  You never mentioned anything since your "revisit" about who should take that spot. 

    The top 3 starters in OBP for Milwaukee:  Kendall (.366), Fielder (.362), Hart (.356).  Should Hart take it?  He's up there in OBP, but he's also the best hitter with RISP, so you put him in leadoff and...put Hall 5th?  That only makes the problem worse, IMO.  Kendall?  Maybe...he's the only other viable option other than Gwynn, but Cameron is the mainstay in CF.  You're definitely not moving Fielder up....

    Here's the main problem:  Compare the entire Brewer lineup against their peers and VERY few would come out looking good.

    The fact you're targeting Weeks for his production, and NOT mentioning other players is being very shortsighted for the problems with the offense. 

  • 05-16-2008 12:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Brewers Win...On Weeks Hit. Any Complaints Now!?