I understand neither has played a single down yet but, it looks (on paper) like BB has recruited 2 QBs that are more talented than Alvarez's total qb recruits combined over 15 years. 

A few years back I beat the "Badgers need to get more talented QBs" argument to death.  I was rebutted by several here who insisted UW could not recruit such players. 

Is the tide turning?  If so, is that because of BB & Chryst vs. BA & White? 

Looks like UW might have some nice QB competition for the next 3 - 4 years. 

These guys are not top-notch bluechip guys like you were referring to or maybe think they are.  An improvement for UW?  Yes.  "Program savior/sure-thing" types?  Hardly.  Michigna State and Purdue get a QB or two as good as these guys every other year.  It's all relative.

Owen Daniels was probably a higher ranked QB recruit than either of these guys....  but that obviously doesn't mean they can't succeed. 

And yes, I think having Chryst around helps in recruiting QBs.

AbeFroman:

These guys are not top-notch bluechip guys like you were referring to or maybe think they are.  An improvement for UW?  Yes.  "Program savior/sure-thing" types?  Hardly.  Michigna State and Purdue get a QB or two as good as these guys every other year.  It's all relative.

Owen Daniels was probably a higher ranked QB recruit than either of these guys....  but that obviously doesn't mean they can't succeed. 

And yes, I think having Chryst around helps in recruiting QBs.

1. I didn't use top notch / blue chip ---- you did, of course just to argue your point, you exaggerate & twist what I said
2. I said better than Alvarez's & White's QBs combined.......let's see, where are they all now?  Sorgi is the best of the lot as far as moving on to the next level.  Point is, they don't have to be (your) so called blue chippers, just better than Bollinger, Savage, Sorgi, Daniels, Donnovan, Stocco.  That's not exactly raising the bar to a blue chip level
3. Improvement yes - that's what I said.  Program savior/sure-things......once again, your overexaggeration, not MINE! 
4. Don't give a F^CK about M State or Purdue, it's  a UW forum & I was talking about the last 2 QBs that BB & UW sgned.  Their relevance is to what UW used to sign at the QB position under Alvarez vs. who they've signed the last 2 years........not who UW signed vs. who M State or Purdue signed. 
5. I realize you were one of a few that a couple of years ago said UW couldn't recruit better QBs.  Sorry dude, they're recruiting better QBs!  I for one look forward to seeing these last two play it out at UW vs. already dismissing their potential talent
6. We see things the same on Chryst & his positive influence. 

7.  Thought you were banned?   

mrusso:

AbeFroman:

These guys are not top-notch bluechip guys like you were referring to or maybe think they are.  An improvement for UW?  Yes.  "Program savior/sure-thing" types?  Hardly.  Michigna State and Purdue get a QB or two as good as these guys every other year.  It's all relative.

Owen Daniels was probably a higher ranked QB recruit than either of these guys....  but that obviously doesn't mean they can't succeed. 

And yes, I think having Chryst around helps in recruiting QBs.

 

1. I didn't use top notch / blue chip ---- you did, of course just to argue your point, you exaggerate & twist what I said
2. I said better than Alvarez's & White's QBs combined.......let's see, where are they all now?  Sorgi is the best of the lot as far as moving on to the next level.  Point is, they don't have to be (your) so called blue chippers, just better than Bollinger, Savage, Sorgi, Daniels, Donnovan, Stocco.  That's not exactly raising the bar to a blue chip level
3. Improvement yes - that's what I said.  Program savior/sure-things......once again, your overexaggeration, not MINE! 
4. Don't give a F^CK about M State or Purdue, it's  a UW forum & I was talking about the last 2 QBs that BB & UW sgned.  Their relevance is to what UW used to sign at the QB position under Alvarez vs. who they've signed the last 2 years........not who UW signed vs. who M State or Purdue signed. 
5. I realize you were one of a few that a couple of years ago said UW couldn't recruit better QBs.  Sorry dude, they're recruiting better QBs!  I for one look forward to seeing these last two play it out at UW vs. already dismissing their potential talent
6. We see things the same on Chryst & his positive influence. 

 

7.  Thought you were banned?   

Sorry dude, not really! 

What I'm trying to say is that on paper, these guys are not really that much better than what UW has always been getting...... ON PAPER, it is a very small improvement, if any.  Phillips MIGHT be a top 20 QB..... but Owen Daniels was actually rated higher.... the other kid is hardly even on national recruiting radars... probably no better of a prospect than Stocco. 

Like you said, you never know.... I wasn't dismissing them as nobody knows how they'll turn out.... I was dismissing your argument that they are a significant improvement recruiting-wise over years gone by (on paper).

not sure how you can say budmayr (if that is the other 'kid' you are referring to) was not on the recruiting radars, he just finished as the MVP in the Nike Camp @ Ohio State.  Schools like Miami, Oregon, Tenn were contacting him and Nebraska, Illinois and Notre Dame offered him.  Plus getting a nice recruit from the Chicago area is nice and maybe he can help us land a few more nice recruits from the area.

On paper of course, Phillips and Budmayr are definately a step up compared to Scott Tolzien (2006) and James Stallons (2007) in my opinion.

Well you know how it goes........he signs with Tenn, ND, Michigan, OSU and guess what?  That's right, he's a 5 star recruit then - whether he pans out or not.  This dance is old! 

mbadger:

 

Russo, although i too, am excited about the prospects of phillips and budymar, and do think they could be good players, i hardly think they are more highly thought of then, bryan savage, sean lewis, tyler donovan, or john stocco.  other then donovan, they certainly seem to be more athletic.  i would not get carried away that they are possible saviors just yet.  fwiw, i was one that insisten the uw could not recruit such players and i stand by that comment.  these guys are not near who i was referring to.  they are not 5 star recruits.  phillips is from tennessee and he wasn't even offered by tennessee.  budymar is from not more than 30 minutes from the wisconsin border so he certainly should be in play recruitingwise.  the guys i think would be major reaches are the five star kids from outside the region.  the matt barkleys of the world.

Exactly.  Enough with the revisonist "I told you so" history... these are not the type of recuits we were debating about. 

mbadger,

I don't believe I ever used the word savior.......where did that adjective come from in this conversation?  It didn't come from me.  Careful with the interpretation of my statements.....you wind up getting that monkey here all excited.  

I'm too lazy to drudge up all the Shaberts etc. from BA's 15 years of recruiting but, that was my point.......there were only a few of these (bryan savage, sean lewis, tyler donovan, john stocco) in 15 years.  There's already at least 2 on par with, if not better than this after only 3 years under BB.  Small steps my friend, not saviors, but.....steps forward nonetheless. 

Also, even though they haven't even taken one snap in a game, "I THINK" the upcoming QB battles between Phillips & Budymar will be the best ever.......which means all it has to be is better than Bollinger/Sorgi.  Is that savior status?  No!  Is it an improvement?  Until proven otherwise............I'm "guessing" yes. 

Please don't associate "savior" with any of my comments regarding this QB topic - thanks. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My original thread here with key words highlighted to refute the "savior" claim.  Also, notice how some of my statements were "questions" and not sentences inferred as "fact." 

AbeFroman:

Exactly.  Enough with the revisonist "I told you so" history... these are not the type of recuits we were debating about. 

Perhaps you can recap the Luke Swan isn't $hit chronicle for us & then tell us all about your recruiting philosophy.  Please just quit..........

mrusso:

AbeFroman:

Exactly.  Enough with the revisonist "I told you so" history... these are not the type of recuits we were debating about. 

 

 

Perhaps you can recap the Luke Swan isn't $hit chronicle for us & then tell us all about your recruiting philosophy.  Please just quit..........

Swanny was a solid #2 WR for a top 20 team, not a bad player... just nothing special and limited somewhat by his skin color... uh...er.... I mean athleticism.... Hubbard was the exact opposite in that he had ALL the physical tools, but was more of a track guy (also a #2 type for a top 20 team) ..... unfortunately, we didn't have a true #1 like Brandon Williams, Lee Evans, or Chris Chambers. 

AbeFroman:

limited somewhat by his skin color... uh...er.... I mean athleticism....

That always cracks me up Abe......thanks for writing it again.  Hey. last I heard old Swanny was trying to make the KC Chiefs roster.......has he made it?  Anyone know?  I'd love to see the kid wind up like a Proehl or Welker. 

one of the intangibles that will hopefully pay dividends for budmayer that not all other recruits may have is that he played in the chicago metro area so obviously the talent is a little higher when competing say compared to Rio, Wi....i.e. in 2005, the smaller Catholic Schools in IL captured 5 of the 8 state football titles.  I may be way off, but sometimes I like to look at what conference/competition these recruits are playing in/against.

russo,  didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but i will add a few more names to the pretty high ranked qbs of of the nineties.  scott lyles, mark zander, scott kavanaugh, mike samuel.  all four were every bit as highly regarded as phillips and budymar.  all but samuel did squat.

 regarding, budymar, the conference he plays in is not a power conference.  the reason i know this is i played football in the conference 20 years ago.  as a matter of fact, i am heading to my 20 year reunion this weekend outside chicago.  the conference has changed slightly, as marion was not in it when i was there.  there were two powers that left b/c they were beating up on everyone else and sought greater competition.  trust me. it is not a conference that i would say is considered powerful.

We're cool mbadger!  Thanks for the other names / examples.  Hopefully, one or two of that last 4 QBs recruited turns into something above a "good game manager."  Meaning.....just hand the ball off, make the occassional wide open completion, & just don't turn the ball over. 

Have a great time at your reunion!!!