I recall the day the trade was made, there were quite a few negative comments, some didn't like the trade, thought we gave up too much ect. I thought it was the best move the Brewers had made in 25 years.

Is there anything negative you can say about this guys performance so far? Can anyone find anything negative about the guy?

Radio, I recall you were not very happy with the deal, and since you are one of the more significant literary participants of the board, I'd like to know your opinion now.

Personally, I say he made the Brewers bonafide, legitmate contenters the day he signed, and the performance on the field is justification of that.

4 years, 84 million - I wonder if he would consider it? I say - offer it Mark A. Try it.

If you had a choice, CC at $21 million per year or Sheets for $15 million who would you take? Are my projected salaries inaccurate?

I love watching and listening to CC pitch.

But that has nothing to do with his price, which I'm not thinking about right now because it doesn't matter at the moment.

We'll worry about whether or not the CC deal was a good idea after the season.

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

As for the salaries you project, project CC and Sheets at the same level, different years.

You couldn't find two current MLB pitchers that are as similar as Sheets and CC in terms of their value going on to the free agency market.

Both Sheets and CC are in that second tier of aces with guys like Beckett, behind guys like Webb and Santana (who are the most elite aces in the game right now, in terms of the value of their production).

CC won't bite for anything less than 6/$120, and I'd love to think Sheets works for 4/$72, but my guess is he'll get something closer to 5/$100.

If you want a comparison for prices, check out the Peavy 2010 extension, Buehrle and Zambrano extension, the Santana extension, and the Barry Zito deal.

For an indication of how high the prices will be, cf. Jeff Suppan, Gil Meche, Eric Milton, and Jason Marquis, among others.

radio silence:

I love watching and listening to CC pitch.

But that has nothing to do with his price, which I'm not thinking about right now because it doesn't matter at the moment.

We'll worry about whether or not the CC deal was a good idea after the season.

 

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

Because Zack Jackson is going to be a stud.

Because it's so much more important to finish in 3rd place but have Dave Kingman at AA, than to get a bonafide ace and try to win a World Series.

Oh? Matt LaPorta? I've heard scouts say that he was only the 3rd best prospect at Huntsville.

CC is walking after the year, but he's well worth the price.

It has nothing to do with Zach Jackson.

It will also depend upon whether or not Taylor Green is included with Matt LaPorta as the PTBNL.

I'm curious, is there a precedent for a team giving away their top ranked prospect and another top 20 prospect for a pitcher in the middle of a season?

a

radio silence:

I love watching and listening to CC pitch.

But that has nothing to do with his price, which I'm not thinking about right now because it doesn't matter at the moment.

We'll worry about whether or not the CC deal was a good idea after the season.

 

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

Radio, I am surprised people haven't debated the comparison of CC to Sheets, but maybe I haven't been around, I don't know.  I think they have similar stuff, both power pitchers, with great breaking stuff to go with it. The difference is this -  CC just seems like a more durable guy than Sheets, but I don't know his injury history, I suppose you do, maybe you could share. Also, CC seems to have tad better control than Sheets. Sheets can lose his command in a few starts, so far I have not seen CC waver in his command more than for a couple of batters.

I fully expected CC to have a rough outing last night after settling in and all the complete games as of late, but I guess the guy is really pitching his *** off for a contract. What a horse. And you could tell he was really pumped in the ninth inning to finish the game off. His fast ball went up to 1st/2nd inning velocities. Did I say...What a horse? I'm really impressed.

If CC wants 6 years $120 mil, offer 5 & $100 mil, see if he bites.

I'm curious who people would rather have - CC or Sheets? Assuming the  cost is relatively close to equal.

Oh, I'd rather have CC -- his age allows a large contract to be less of a gamble.

I love Sheets, he's my favorite Brewer. But, he is 30, Sabathia is 28. As similar as they are, the little things like that make a difference.

A 6-year deal for Sabathia ends at the same age for CC as a 4-year deal for Sheets.

Think about this -- Sabathia is so young, he could probably get two big $$$ contracts in his career. Good for him.

radio silence:

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

This is just a mindset that's completely foreign to me.  I remember post-season baseball in Milwaukee - were you even alive in '82?  If this team makes the playoffs, this trade was completely worth it.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZackAttack:

radio silence:

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

This is just a mindset that's completely foreign to me.  I remember post-season baseball in Milwaukee - were you even alive in '82?  If this team makes the playoffs, this trade was completely worth it.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Second that.

ZackAttack:

radio silence:

I guarantee you that if we don't re-sign him, I will be very upset with what he cost.

This is just a mindset that's completely foreign to me.  I remember post-season baseball in Milwaukee - were you even alive in '82?  If this team makes the playoffs, this trade was completely worth it.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

+1000

shipitdear:

The trade needs to be evaluated at the end of the season.  I still think we need to get to the NLCS for it to have made sense.

We disagreed about this when it happened and we still do.  To evaluate whether the trade was worth it in retrospect isn't fair to Melvin.  Melvin gave us the best chance to make the playoffs in at least 15 years, arguably 26 years. 

Risk - we don't make the playoffs and gave up one very good prospect and one unproven, but potentially very good prospect.

Reward - invigorate a city that hasn't hand winning baseball in two and a half decades and have the best 7 game series starting pitching staff in baseball.

To me it's a no brainer.  Small market teams have to take their chance when they get it.  Would you rather be the Twins and A's (make the playoffs almost every year but never win anything) or the Marlins (won 2 WS in the past decade but struggle in their rebuilding years)?  Personally, I'll take the fish every time.

Here's a career comparison of Sheets / Sabathia. They're literally two of the most similar pitchers you could find:

Sabathia (28): 8 years, 241 GS; 1561.7 IP, 1455 H, 706 R, 1296 K/506 BB; 4.07 runs average, 6.48 IP/GS; 30 GS/season

 

Sabathia (28): 117 career ERA+, 2.56 K/BB, 8.39 H/9 IP, 2.92 BB/9 IP, 7.47 K/9 IP; 1.256 career WHIP; 1.59 QS Index (IP/GS)/(runs average)

 

Sheets (30): 8 years, 209 GS; 1357.7 IP, 1339 H, 620 R, 1159 K/295 BB; 4.01 runs average, 6.50 IP/GS; 26 GS/season

 

Sheets (30): 115 career ERA+, 3.93 K/BB, 8.88 H/9 IP, 1.96 BB/9 IP, 7.68 K/9 IP; 1.204 career WHIP; 1.62 QS Index (IP/GS)/(runs average)

Sabathia is more durable (averaging 4 more GS per season), but one of the big differences is that while Sheets has had more of an injury history, he also pitched 8 fewer starts than Sabathia during his rookie season, which accounts for some of that difference. Sheets has more 200+ IP seasons, Sabathia has more 150+ IP seasons.

As for performance, their Quality Start (QS) averages are almost exactly the same (6.48/4,07 for Sabathia, 6.50/4.01 for Sheets).

In peripherals, Sheets is slightly more hittable, but indeed has better control than Sabathia, by a pretty good margin (Sheets' 3.93 K/BB is actually one of the best all-time marks for pitchers with mroe than 1,000 career IP.

As for baserunners, because of the better control numbers, Sheets allows fewer baserunners than Sabathia, but not by much.

Again, these guys are so similar, things like age will become much more important factors for contracts.

ike1024:

To me it's a no brainer.  Small market teams have to take their chance when they get it.  Would you rather be the Twins and A's (make the playoffs almost every year but never win anything) or the Marlins (won 2 WS in the past decade but struggle in their rebuilding years)?  Personally, I'll take the fish every time.

I'll take the Atlanta Braves.

Division competition and playoff competition every year.

World Series no longer celebrate the best teams in baseball during the WC era. Winning a division over 162 games is something that really distinguishes teams now.

Not saying the WS isn't the ultimate prize, but it can be based much more on luck now that a WC team can sneak into it and win it.