1.) The CC trade was a good one NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS GOING FORWARD. It showed that the Brewers were FINALLY going to be players. It has captured even the casual fans attention in Milwaukee. There is no GUARANTEE LaPorta is ever going to be anything more than a good/journeymen player- maybe a .260-30HR/yr guy who is limited in the field. The team had to make this move- when you have your opportunities to do something special you have to roll the dice. The last time this franchise had a meaningful year was in 82 (26 years ago).  This move made a statement to the rest of the league saying "we are no longer the little red headed step child that is going to take this SHEEET anymore!" This was a big story nationally- "Who does that little market team Milwaukee think they are playing with the big boys, they are just a farm team for us big boys."

2.) The REALITY is there is NO WAY we resign CC or Sheets. I REPEAT NO WAY! He turned down $18mil/5or6 years from a team he had a long time allegiance with-do not fool yourself- he will not take $20 for 3 or 4 years when he can get more $ and a longer guarantee elsewhere. This is another reason they are "all-in". He is going to want a 6 year deal and somewhere around $25 mill (he will get it). That would be around 25%+ of the entire payroll budget for Milwaukee. For a guy that plays once a week and is going to be moving into his 30's that just is not responsible. His talent could (and probably will) decline during that time which would absolutely cripple this small market team. I wish we could do it, but that is the way that MLB works -"the rich get richer". Yes, we were able to rent CC because we had the best prospects and that allowed us to roll like a player, but the truth is we can't out money the big dogs (NEVER WILL).

3.) Prince will not be a Brewer that much longer (maybe another year or two MAX). He is a good hitter and a very good power guy. He is a poor fielder and runner which makes him pretty much one dimensional. That kind of player finds a home in the American league where they can hide their weaknesses. With a host of KEY players due for long term contracts in the not to distant -(Hardy, Hart, Parra, Gallardo, and Weeks (maybe) to name a few), they can not afford to pay him what he and his jack assssss Agent Boras wants. The other thing to keep in mind is he's around 300 Ibs at age 24 on a vege diet, do you think he will be faster and lighter in a few years? What Fielder will give us is a good+ player in trade.

4.) This Brewers will probably regress next year, but the future is still VERY bright. Their top quality Scouting and farm system is going to continue to feed the team 4 and 5 star prospects for at least the next several years. They will lose CC and the Sheeter, but they get back Yo and I'm sure will still look to add another #2-3 guy in free agency or trade to go with Parra to form an excellent 1-2-3 punch. NO other team in MLB has a better group of young stars and prospects. As a result of the loss of CC and Sheets in free agency they will be stock piling more young talent in next years draft. I know the draft is a major crap shoot in MLB, but with this organization(Scouts/Nichols) I think it means a little more.

5.) They got a sniff last year of the playoffs, this year they will get there. They might regress a little next year, but they should remain a major contender for years to come. Summers now mean a little bit more to all of us Brewer fans.

In summary - enjoy CC and Sheets for the rest of the year. Many of you seem to feel we have a chance to resign them, you are dead wrong. The financial constraints of having a Pitcher signed for $23 mill + long term would have on this team would be totally irresponsible. Just because we lose our top 2 Pitchers doesn't mean we will return to the cellar. This team is going to be a competitive team and fun to watch for many years to come.

A few points on your assumptions:

(1) How many ".260/30-HR" guys can be acquired for 7 year/$40 million contracts?

(2) Why would the fact that CC or Sheets pitch once every five days make them less valuable? When they pitch, they average better than 6.3 IP per game, and they regularly face between 800-900 batters throughout the course of a season.

The only player that could even touch a CC or Sheets-caliber pitcher in terms of valuable is a very good lead-off hitter that gets mroe than 800 PA during the course of the season.

People seem to toss around these "1 in every 5 days" arguments like they're good arguments about a pitcher's value, but the fact is, these quality-level pitchers are the most valuable players in the game because of the number of PA they eat up for the pitching staff in a whole season.

 Up here in Minnesota people were all depressed about losing Santana. But would you know it, young guys can come in a pitch and do well! Why can't Yo and Parra step up and lead this team? How many big name players does Oakland have? Arn't they leading the majors in ERA? The Brewers will be fine. Just ride these horses to the finish line.

GophersDrinkMilk:

 Up here in Minnesota people were all depressed about losing Santana. But would you know it, young guys can come in a pitch and do well! Why can't Yo and Parra step up and lead this team? How many big name players does Oakland have? Arn't they leading the majors in ERA? The Brewers will be fine. Just ride these horses to the finish line.

fmrmarinesgt97:

GophersDrinkMilk:

 Up here in Minnesota people were all depressed about losing Santana. But would you know it, young guys can come in a pitch and do well! Why can't Yo and Parra step up and lead this team? How many big name players does Oakland have? Arn't they leading the majors in ERA? The Brewers will be fine. Just ride these horses to the finish line.

The difference is that those teams had good pitchers in the pipeline.  The Brewers are not as fortunate right now.  We can sure groom offensive talent, but our drafting of pitchers has been somewhat suspect.

I agree that our farm system is not ready to supply the big league team with pitchers right now, but why does that mean Doug Melvin should overpay for a starter?  I would rather not handcuff 25% of the team's finances on someone like Sabathia.  I'd rather spread it out between the bullpen and the starting rotation. 

Jim Breen:

I agree that our farm system is not ready to supply the big league team with pitchers right now, but why does that mean Doug Melvin should overpay for a starter?  I would rather not handcuff 25% of the team's finances on someone like Sabathia.  I'd rather spread it out between the bullpen and the starting rotation. 

I agree with you Jim, but this is where it gets sticky.  The challenge Melvin is going to face this year is whether or not it makes sense to resign Sheets.  The way I see it, the Brewers will need to acquire at least 1 Free Agent starter, probably a #2/#3 type as mentioned above.   The challenge comes in when you look at your ROI for Ben Sheets vs the ROI for your ideal FA signing.  How much is Ben Sheets going to cost? How much is the Free Agent pitcher that would replace him cost?  Judging from recent contracts (Carlos Silva, Jeff Suppan) a #3/#4 guy costs you about 12 million per year for about 4 years.  If Ben Sheets costs 15 million per year for 5 years, isn't it worth it to resign him? 

Seems to me you'd get a much better return on your investment if you ink Ben Sheets instead of a guy who's going to be a lot worse but not much cheaper.

That's a very good point, MrQuestions.

At the rate middle of the rotation pitchers are getting signed, aces like Sheets and Sabathia will be relative bargains, given the difference in production between a slightly-below-average-to-league-average starter and a slightly-above-average-to-above-average starter.

If Sheets can be signed for 4/$80, it's a worthwhile question. The 5th year gets a bit dicey.

Sabathia is definitely worth a 6/$120 contract.

Of course, the other possibility is to run a series of trades to find different ways to raise that type of pitching talent in the minors, or find toolsy pitchers that mimick some traits of a CC or Sheets (but are undervalued for some reason), or simply trade for ML-ready quality starters.

Given the price of those ML-ready pitchers for '09, it might actually be a better value to bite on a contract for Sheets or Sabathia.

Even the other possibilities of Burnett, Lowe, and Pettitte will be expensive. When it comes down to it, it's all a matter of what type of production you can get for that area between $16-$20 million.

MrQuestions:

I agree with you Jim, but this is where it gets sticky.  The challenge Melvin is going to face this year is whether or not it makes sense to resign Sheets.  The way I see it, the Brewers will need to acquire at least 1 Free Agent starter, probably a #2/#3 type as mentioned above.   The challenge comes in when you look at your ROI for Ben Sheets vs the ROI for your ideal FA signing.  How much is Ben Sheets going to cost? How much is the Free Agent pitcher that would replace him cost?  Judging from recent contracts (Carlos Silva, Jeff Suppan) a #3/#4 guy costs you about 12 million per year for about 4 years.  If Ben Sheets costs 15 million per year for 5 years, isn't it worth it to resign him? 

Seems to me you'd get a much better return on your investment if you ink Ben Sheets instead of a guy who's going to be a lot worse but not much cheaper.

I completely agree Mr. Questions.  That is, if we're talking about free agent pitching.  

If Doug Melvin does not want to try the trade market, they should try to resign Ben Sheets.  He will give them much more value.  We're agreed on that.

I'm arguing that Milwaukee should trade one of their starting infielders (preferably not J.J.) to get someone like Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, or the like.  That will be relatively cheap and free up some room to go after bullpen arms like Juan Cruz, Brandon Lyon, Scott Eyre, Will Ohman, or Dan Wheeler.

Not to mention we're ignoring the contract increases of players like Prince Fielder, J.J. Hardy, Rickie Weeks, Dave Bush, Corey Hart, etc.  That will be a hefty chunk of change right there.  With that said, the team should still save money this off-season after losing Sabathia, Sheets, Mota, Gagne, etc. 

 By my calculations, Jeffres should be ready to be stretched out to abround 150 innings next year if we feel he is ready. Also there is another guy in AA who is looking pretty sharp, Periard is his name. Not to mention we get Cappy back next year. So next year we have Parra, Yo, Cappy, Suppan, Bush, McClung. Not a terrible rotation PLUS 4 more draft picks. PLUS the plethora of pitchrs we got this year. Our pitching will be ok.

GophersDrinkMilk:

 By my calculations, Jeffres should be ready to be stretched out to abround 150 innings next year if we feel he is ready. Also there is another guy in AA who is looking pretty sharp, Periard is his name. Not to mention we get Cappy back next year. So next year we have Parra, Yo, Cappy, Suppan, Bush, McClung. Not a terrible rotation PLUS 4 more draft picks. PLUS the plethora of pitchrs we got this year. Our pitching will be ok.

Which of those pitchers averages a quality start in 60% of his GS over the last four years, and has ever pitched 200 IP with an ERA under 3.00 in the same season?

(Also, I'd like to know if a pitcher has ever returned from two Tommy John surgeries -- and Cappy probably won't be ready until the middle of 2009 because they pussyfooted around with rehab before the surgery).

GophersDrinkMilk:

 By my calculations, Jeffres should be ready to be stretched out to abround 150 innings next year if we feel he is ready. Also there is another guy in AA who is looking pretty sharp, Periard is his name. Not to mention we get Cappy back next year. So next year we have Parra, Yo, Cappy, Suppan, Bush, McClung. Not a terrible rotation PLUS 4 more draft picks. PLUS the plethora of pitchrs we got this year. Our pitching will be ok.

Jeffress will not be ready next year. He's still in A ball, and has only thrown around 200 innings for his career. Not to mention he has been up and down in A ball. his future looks pretty good, but next year his future is Huntsville. Cappy can't be counted on, he wasn't good the last year and a half and is coming off another major surgery. I would be surprised if he logs more than 50 innings next year. It's not realistic to think any of the pitchers they drafted this year will be able to help next year, much less the draft picks next year. So there is cause for concern for our rotation next year.

That said, I'll worry about next year in November. Our rotation now is one of the best in baseball, and I'm going to enjoy that.

Carmichael17:

4.) This Brewers will probably regress next year, but the future is still VERY bright. Their top quality Scouting and farm system is going to continue to feed the team 4 and 5 star prospects for at least the next several years. They will lose CC and the Sheeter, but they get back Yo and I'm sure will still look to add another #2-3 guy in free agency or trade to go with Parra to form an excellent 1-2-3 punch. NO other team in MLB has a better group of young stars and prospects. As a result of the loss of CC and Sheets in free agency they will be stock piling more young talent in next years draft. I know the draft is a major crap shoot in MLB, but with this organization(Scouts/Nichols) I think it means a little more.

While I do like the Brewers talent level, I'm not so sure they have the best group of young stars and prospects right now.....

You are forgetting about Tampa - with Crawford, Longoria, Pena, Navarro, BJ Upton, Zobrist, Iwamura as hitters and pitchers such as Sonnastine, Kazmur, Shields, Garza and David Price on the near horizon, they would be right up there with the Brewers.

Yes, I think the Brewers have the advantage in terms of position players, as Braun, Fielder, Hart, et al are VERY impressive.  But Tampa Bay has a huge advantage on the young impressive arm front.  The Crew would love to have that many dominant arms to go along with Gallardo.

I'm not saying Tampa has a better collection of young players, but I would certainly say it is strongly debatable if the Brewers stock of young impact players is better than Tampa's......

just sayin.... 

GophersDrinkMilk:

 By my calculations, Jeffres should be ready to be stretched out to abround 150 innings next year if we feel he is ready. Also there is another guy in AA who is looking pretty sharp, Periard is his name. Not to mention we get Cappy back next year. So next year we have Parra, Yo, Cappy, Suppan, Bush, McClung. Not a terrible rotation PLUS 4 more draft picks. PLUS the plethora of pitchrs we got this year. Our pitching will be ok.

Jeffress and Periard will not sniff the big leagues until maybe 2010.  Periard is a workhorse, but needs to prove himself against better competition.  Jeffress still needs to stretch out and become much, much more consistent.

With that said, the Brewers have fantastic pitching in the lower ranks that will make some noise in the coming years.  Amaury Rivas, Evan Anundsen, Seth Lintz, Jake Odorizzi, Cody Scarpetta, Robert Wooten, and Mike Ramlow should become household names in just a couple of years.

Right now, however, unless you are excited about Lindsay Gulin or Sam Narron, there is not much at the top of the system.  The lefties in Huntsville are not impact arms either. 

You may see the name Troy Cate in September if he can step it up a notch in Nashville though. 

Jim Breen:

fmrmarinesgt97:

GophersDrinkMilk:

 Up here in Minnesota people were all depressed about losing Santana. But would you know it, young guys can come in a pitch and do well! Why can't Yo and Parra step up and lead this team? How many big name players does Oakland have? Arn't they leading the majors in ERA? The Brewers will be fine. Just ride these horses to the finish line.

The difference is that those teams had good pitchers in the pipeline.  The Brewers are not as fortunate right now.  We can sure groom offensive talent, but our drafting of pitchers has been somewhat suspect.

 

I agree that our farm system is not ready to supply the big league team with pitchers right now, but why does that mean Doug Melvin should overpay for a starter?  I would rather not handcuff 25% of the team's finances on someone like Sabathia.  I'd rather spread it out between the bullpen and the starting rotation. 

CORRECT! The Brewers would be gambling too much payroll on just one player.

radio silence:

A few points on your assumptions:

(1) How many ".260/30-HR" guys can be acquired for 7 year/$40 million contracts?

(2) Why would the fact that CC or Sheets pitch once every five days make them less valuable? When they pitch, they average better than 6.3 IP per game, and they regularly face between 800-900 batters throughout the course of a season.

The only player that could even touch a CC or Sheets-caliber pitcher in terms of valuable is a very good lead-off hitter that gets mroe than 800 PA during the course of the season.

People seem to toss around these "1 in every 5 days" arguments like they're good arguments about a pitcher's value, but the fact is, these quality-level pitchers are the most valuable players in the game because of the number of PA they eat up for the pitching staff in a whole season.

(1) I honestly don't get your point on this one??

(2) This was brought up by some ex-big league players on a round table when asked about this very issue. They thought that for smaller market teams that player just would not have the impact to warrant taking up 20% of payroll- I tend to agree and thought it was an interesting point that people who played the game at this level had and respected their opinion.

You could argue your point about value- I know you like to be the self proclaimed king of this board, but I would take a Pujols, Braun, A-Rod, etc.. It's a debatable point, I could swing it around back on you and we could go back and forth, but it's not worth my time because I know you think you pretty much know it all and it would be a waste of time.

Radio, you bring up good points a lot of times and I agree with you many times, but you got to get off the I am the god of knowledge when it comes to baseball and you know nothing thing- kinda gets old.