A look at the Brewers Offensively

Last post 02-13-2009 3:57 PM by Base Knox. 18 replies.
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  • 02-12-2009 9:26 PM

    A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Here's a look at the Brewers offensively. This is another comparative effort in an attempt to try piece together the lineup that optimizes the talent on the team. With the splits a majority of the team has, a left-handed bench seems to, if used correctly, will take full advantage of the team.

    This is what I used to come up with my lineups.

    Rickie Weeks

    Career V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .243/.338/.399----------------------------.250/.392/.426

    2008 V. RHP--------------------------------V. LHP

    .227/.319/.391----------------------------.250/.391/.414

    2006-2008 V. RHP------------------------V. LHP

    .243/.343/.404----------------------------.257/.398/.437

    JJ Hardy

    Career V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .259/.312/.404----------------------------.299/.374/.564

    2008 V. RHP--------------------------------V. LHP

    .276/.320/.444----------------------------.304/.402/.574

    2006-2008 V. RHP------------------------V. LHP

    .265/.308/.423----------------------------.308/.385/.578

    Ryan Braun

    Career V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .283/.327/.546----------------------------.351/.412/.702

    2008 V. RHP--------------------------------V. LHP

    .284/.333/.561----------------------------.287/.341/.532

    2006-2008 V. RHP------------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Prince Fielder

    Career V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .292/.387/.540----------------------------.250/.357/.527

    2008 V. RHP--------------------------------V. LHP

    .295/.401/.554----------------------------.239/.313/.420

    2006-2008 V. RHP------------------------V. LHP

    .292/.393/.572----------------------------.249/.323/.463

    Mike Cameron

    Career V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .245/.331/.435----------------------------.266/.366/.485

    2008 V. RHP--------------------------------V. LHP

    .231/.309/.452----------------------------.282/.397/.555

    2006-2008 V. RHP------------------------V. LHP

    .243/.321/.449----------------------------.275/.387/.495

    Bill Hall

    Career V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .249/.300/.441---------------------------.278/.355/.493

    2008 V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .174/.242/.316---------------------------.306/.371/.522

    2006-2008 V. RHP-----------------------V. LHP

    .235/.296/.435---------------------------.292/.374/.536

    Mike Lamb

    Career V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .281/.336/.422--------------------------.253/.320/.393

    2008 V. RHP-------------------------------V. LHP

    .259/.300/.343--------------------------.067/.097/.167

    2006-2008 V. RHP-----------------------V. LHP

    .291/.349/.432--------------------------.231/.291/.403

    Corey Hart

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .267/.304/.472--------------------------.300/.364/.516

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .263/.291/.454--------------------------.281/.321/.508

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    .270/.306/.462-------------------------.305/.368/.525

    Jason Kendall

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .293/.370/.382--------------------------.293/.375/.411

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .245/.324/.316--------------------------.250/.335/.346

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    .224/.295/.279--------------------------.259/.340/.339

    Current Bench Options

    Craig Counsell

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .256/.346/.349--------------------------.251/.333/.322

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .229/.358/.308--------------------------.190/.333/.238

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    .241/.338/.335--------------------------.215/.317/.266

    Trot Nixon

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .288/.376/.496-------------------------.214/.308/.322

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .176/.282/.294-------------------------.000/.500/.000

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    .267/.365/.378-------------------------.210/.322/.301

    Chris Duffy

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .276/.338/.369--------------------------.246/.297/.339

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    No Data Available

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Tony Gwynn Jr.

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .237/.291/.293-------------------------.333/.379/.333

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .150/.222/.175-------------------------1.000/1.000/1.000

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Mike Rivera

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .256/.303/.409--------------------------.223/.284/.340

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .356/.396/.511--------------------------.176/.333/.235

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Brad Nelson

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .333/.429/.667---------------------------.000/.000/.000

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .333/.429/.511--------------------------.000/.000/.000

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Casey McGehee

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .188/.176/.188--------------------------.125/.125/.250

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .188/.176/.188--------------------------.125/.125/.125

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    Hernan Irribarren

    Career V. RHP-----------------------------V. LHP

    .154/.214/.231--------------------------.000/.000/.000

    2008 V. RHP------------------------------V. LHP

    .154/.214/.231--------------------------.000/.000/.000

    2006-2008 V. RHP----------------------V. LHP

    Not Enough Data Available

    My lineups would be:

    V. RHP

    2B Rickie Weeks/Craig Counsell-I'd make this a soft platoon with Weeks and Counsell. Give Counsell AB against tougher righties.

    3B Mike Lamb-I'm putting Lamb here because before the poor season he had in 2008 he had consecutive 360 OBP (.353 v. RHP (2007) and .380 v. RHP (2006)) seasons in the NL Central.

    LF Ryan Braun-I'm keeping Braun in the 3 hole to have Prince for protection.

    1B Prince Fielder-As I said for Braun, I'm putting Fielder here for Ryan's protection.

    SS JJ Hardy-I'm putting Hardy here to protect Fielder. Hardy could slide into the 2 spot if Lamb doesn't bounce back.

    CF Mike Cameron- I'm putting Cameron in front of Hart just because he'll get on base more and pop a couple more home runs against righties.

    RF Corey Hart/Trot Nixon/Brad Nelson?-Depending on who the backup corner outfielder is I'd go with a soft platoon of Hart and Nelson or Hart and Nixon.

    C Jason Kendall-Nothing to say for a non offensive catcher batting 8.

    Pitcher

    V. LHP

    2B Rickie Weeks-.398 OBP against lefties from 2006-2008

    SS JJ Hardy-.385 OBP against lefties from 2006-2008

    1B Prince Fielder-I flipped Fielder with Braun because Fielder has troubles against lefties and I figure slotting him between Hardy and Braun would help him.

    LF Ryan Braun-As I said for Fielder, I'm putting Braun fourth to protect Fielder.

    3B Bill Hall-Mr. Lefty Killer would be perfect protection for Braun

    CF Mike Cameron-Hart and Cameron could easily be flopped in this situation as there isn't much difference between the two. RF Corey Hart-Same as I said for Cameron.

    C Jason Kendall-Nothing to say for a non offensive catcher batting 8.

    Pitcher

    Bench

    COF Trot Nixon

    COF/1B Brad Nelson

    INF Craig Counsell

    C Mike Rivera

    CINF Mike Lamb

    INF/CF Bill Hall

    Reasons for my Bench: 1. I took both Nelson and Nixon because they're both better hitters than Gwynn and Duffy, assuming Nixon rebounds to at least 2007 numbers.

    2. If Nixon and Hart are platooned (again a soft platoon), Macha has both Hart and Hall on the bench for CF against RHP. Both of them are better than Gwynn and Duffy Offensively.

    3. If Nelson and Hart are platooned (soft platoon), then Nixon probably isn't on the bench and I'd probably have Duffy over Gwynn. Really is just a coin toss between those two, though.

    4. I'd have Nelson on the bench regardless because he's out of options, and I definitely don't think he'd make it through waivers. He could be traded, but I'd hold onto him and see what he can do in the majors. If Gamel can handle 3rd defensively, we could have a cheap controllable replacement (5 years after 2009) for Fielder, in Nelson, when we trade Fielder in the offseason.

    5. If Nelson platoons (soft platoon) with Hart, Macha can send Hart/Duffy in as a defensive replacement later in games.

  • 02-12-2009 11:35 PM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    I really like your ideas here, but it doesn't take into account the affect a platoon can have on a player mentally if they feel they should be an everyday starter.  In theory though, I like what you got.

    brewerscubs.com - check it out if you want to join a forum dedicated to talk about the Brewers (there is a seperate board for cubs fans too). Despite only 235 members right now, the board has over 100,000 total post, the majority of the members are regulars and avid brewers fans, so check it out if you are interested.

    brewerscubs.com
    - The only place where brewers and cubs fans coexist peacfully (doesn't mean no debating with one another)










  • 02-13-2009 12:32 AM In reply to

    • iangus
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-22-2008
    • Milwaukee, WI
    • Posts 515

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Hall will get first shot at 3B.  If he struggles, maybe we'll see Lamb more often.

    Bench outfield is tough.  I'm not sure what happens there.  I think Gwynn has the worst odds of the four.

  • 02-13-2009 8:17 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    This lineup would make a balanced bench sometimes, but it would not be a good starting lineup.  The non-Hart RF's shouldn't make a platoon and should only start there once in awhile, same with Counsell at 2b.  This would, however, be the only way to get a good balanced bench, to start at least one of the bench players every game.  But that hurts the starting lineup

  • 02-13-2009 8:29 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    I like where you are going here, at first glance.  Spreadsheet format would have made this much more visually apealing, but I think you are on track.  For whatever reason, I am liking Lamb in the 2 hole.

    I only hope Ken Macha feels about Weeks, the way you do.  Running Rickie out there opening day in the lead-off position would send the message that either the future is NOW, or this team is going to fizzle out its farm system and go back to less than mediocre status.

    Good work on this.

    http://scooppost.blogspot.com/
  • 02-13-2009 8:41 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    We would have Hall and Rivera on the bench against RHP and if a soft platoon, I emphasize soft, we'll have Hart and Weeks, not necessarily the same days. Hall and Hart can step in and take a couple games for Cameron at CF over the course of the season. How many teams carry more than one lefty in their pen? For the teams that only carry one lefty, do they waste the lefty on one of our pinch hitting options or wait until Fielder is up to use him? The few times that teams choose the former over the latter may only amount to 15-20 AB over the course of 162 games. According to the players platoon splits, we should rarely, if ever, sit the starters against lefty starters. This "unbalanced" bench becomes a positive factor when pinch hitting late in games against righty relievers. Everytime we have to pinch hit for a pitcher means more advantages of LHB v. RHP as few teams carry more than one lefty. I'm also not advocating a hard platoon with anyone other than Hall/Lamb. My thing with Hart/Nixon, Hart/Nelson, and Weeks/Counsell is to play them a couple of more games against tougher righties is that it should improve the production of the lineup over the course of the season.

  • 02-13-2009 9:10 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Warboss74:

    We would have Hall and Rivera on the bench against RHP and if a soft platoon, I emphasize soft, we'll have Hart and Weeks, not necessarily the same days. Hall and Hart can step in and take a couple games for Cameron at CF over the course of the season. How many teams carry more than one lefty in their pen? For the teams that only carry one lefty, do they waste the lefty on one of our pinch hitting options or wait until Fielder is up to use him? The few times that teams choose the former over the latter may only amount to 15-20 AB over the course of 162 games. According to the players platoon splits, we should rarely, if ever, sit the starters against lefty starters. This "unbalanced" bench becomes a positive factor when pinch hitting late in games against righty relievers. Everytime we have to pinch hit for a pitcher means more advantages of LHB v. RHP as few teams carry more than one lefty. I'm also not advocating a hard platoon with anyone other than Hall/Lamb. My thing with Hart/Nixon, Hart/Nelson, and Weeks/Counsell is to play them a couple of more games against tougher righties is that it should improve the production of the lineup over the course of the season.

    Except Hall has the best chance to be the regular 3b, although I agree with you I'd like Lamb to be out there against at least most righties.  If by soft platoon then you mean spot starting on occasion, then that is fine

  • 02-13-2009 9:22 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    I understand Hall has the best chance, but even if he returns to his career norms against righties Lamb would still be better against them. I wouldn't be opposed to Hall getting starts against RHP, but I'd rather have him earn that time over Lamb. My definition of a soft platoon is a step above a spot start. It's a calculated spot start in my opinion. Instead of just starting them to give the starters a day off, I would plan where/when they'd start. Let's say Hart has a history of struggling against a certain RHP we let Nixon/Nelson start. Same with Weeks.

  • 02-13-2009 9:59 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Warboss74:

    I understand Hall has the best chance, but even if he returns to his career norms against righties Lamb would still be better against them. I wouldn't be opposed to Hall getting starts against RHP, but I'd rather have him earn that time over Lamb. My definition of a soft platoon is a step above a spot start. It's a calculated spot start in my opinion. Instead of just starting them to give the starters a day off, I would plan where/when they'd start. Let's say Hart has a history of struggling against a certain RHP we let Nixon/Nelson start. Same with Weeks.

    Remember Hall's defense is better than Lamb also.  I don't foresee Hall being able to hit righties effectively enough to deserve a lot of PT against righties (no matter how much he cries about it) so I hope Lamb makes a hard platoon.

    A soft platoon would work well at 2b because it would keep Weeks fresh and balance the lineup and bench a little bit on those days.  In the outfield, it depends on if any of the outfielders show they deserve to play, and I don't know if we want Nelson playing RF defensively, although i like him over the other options because of his offense and potential

  • 02-13-2009 10:16 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    That brings back the point I was discussing with mikeyjay. When does Hall (offense + defense) become better than Lamb (offense + defense). If Hall hits righties like he has the last three years .235/.296/.435 (career .249/.300/.441), is the difference defensively equal to or greater than the difference offensively?
  • 02-13-2009 10:38 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    favre4halloffame:

    I really like your ideas here, but it doesn't take into account the affect a platoon can have on a player mentally if they feel they should be an everyday starter.  In theory though, I like what you got.

    It wasn't meant to take anything into account except for platoon splits of players likely to play for the Brewers this year and develop the most productive lineup possible. I assume you're referencing Hall last year with the "if they feel they should be an everyday starter" line. I would say that it really doesn't matter. Most players tend to have a natural difference in their platoon splits. By placing a player with a larger difference in some type of platoon role (hard, soft, or somewhere in between), it allows that player to be successful by putting them in situations where they're likely to succeed.

  • 02-13-2009 11:59 AM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    I think platoon's are a bad idea in general.  There is a lot to be said about a player feeling comfortable in the idea that he will be out there everyday.  I think the practice of a platoon brings unnecessary pressure that basically forces a player to always press in the field and in the box.

    Honestly, I believe 3rd base is open for competition right now, and I would not be surprised if Hall or Lamb was out there Opening Day.  Macha strikes me as someone who will do whatever he can to avoid a platoon situation.  As well, no player in their right mind would be for any type of platoon.  Even in little league.  Players want to be out there everyday, and ST is the time to decide who those 8 players are that will be everyday starters.

    Does anyone think for a second that the platoon at third helped this team out at all, in anyway, last season?

    How's that "DAMN LUCK" Working out for you now, Quick??
  • 02-13-2009 12:47 PM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Just because every player wants to play every day doesnt make platoons a "bad idea".  Sure, everyone wants to play, but if Lamb puts up an OPS around 800 vs righties and Hall puts up an OPS of 900 vs lefties, it makes 3b in general come out around .840ish.

     Unless Hall plans on suddenly handling righies better than lamb, a platoon makes sense.  Screw the fact that everyone wants to play every day. 

    The numbers tell the story.  I dont dislike platoons as a theory at all, but I think the advantage in production needs to be crystal clear in order to reduce any "hurt feelings".

    http://scooppost.blogspot.com/
  • 02-13-2009 1:48 PM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Greg Brock......Who?:
    Macha strikes me as someone who will do whatever he can to avoid a platoon situation.
    I curious what makes you think that.

    I can't find much evidence one way or the other, but my instinct tells me that he would be all for a platoon if it is the best call production wise. Macha is a numbers guy. Listening to his presser, he pointed to stat evidence multiple times (off hand, I recall talking about needing to steal at a high percent to be useful and that the numbers behind giving up outs via the bunt don't make sense). If he's inclined in that direction, I don't know why he would hesitate to get a platoon advantage when he can. What's more, Macha has never been accused of being a players manager. So I'm not sure how much he worries about the "comfort" of players with their role.

    Maybe there is something I'm not seeing here?

    Proud member of the Clueless Moron HOF.
  • 02-13-2009 2:29 PM In reply to

    Re: A look at the Brewers Offensively

    Greg Brock......Who?:

    I think platoon's are a bad idea in general. 

    I kinda see what you're getting at, GB. 

    For myself, and as it pertains to last year's production, it wasn't so much the idea of a platoon that irked me, but moreso that neither member of the platoon (Hall/Counsell) could contribute the kind of numbers you would expect from a 3B in your lineup when they were playing.  It seemed like such an opportunity lost to me last year.

    I think ideally you wouldn't want to be forced to use a platoon at 3B (like the Brewers are forced to) because you'd have an anchor at a position that historically has solid run producers playing there.  That make any sense?

    Can you guys think of many other teams that employ a platoon at 3rd?   

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