I know many of you are upset/frustrated with Manny Parra this year. Taking a deeper look at his first 10 starts this year compared to his first 10 starts last year.

2008

• 49.1 IP
• 4.93 IP/GS
• 5.11 ERA
• 1.73 WHIP
• 1 QS

2009

• 53.1 IP
• 5.33 IP/GS
• 5.57 ERA
• 1.73 WHIP
• 6 QS

His ERA was slightly better in 2008, but his overall performance in 2009 is skewed by the Minnesota game. (3.1 IP 8 ER 8 H 3 BB) He's been giving us a better chance to win most nights with his 6 QS compared to 1 QS last year. From his 11th start through the end of August last year, he pitched 99.1 innings(6.14 IP/GS) with a 3.44 ERA and a 1.370 WHIP before hitting the wall in September.

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

Warboss74:

I know many of you are upset/frustrated with Manny Parra this year. Taking a deeper look at his first 10 starts this year compared to his first 10 starts last year.

2008

• 49.1 IP
• 4.93 IP/GS
• 5.11 ERA
• 1.73 WHIP
• 1 QS

2009

• 53.1 IP
• 5.33 IP/GS
• 5.57 ERA
• 1.73 WHIP
• 6 QS

His ERA was slightly better in 2008, but his overall performance in 2009 is skewed by the Minnesota game. (3.1 IP 8 ER 8 H 3 BB) He's been giving us a better chance to win most nights with his 6 QS compared to 1 QS last year. From his 11th start through the end of August last year, he pitched 99.1 innings(6.14 IP/GS) with a 3.44 ERA and a 1.370 WHIP before hitting the wall in September.

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

I agree with you that if you look beyond the numbers Parra has much more reliable from start to start then in 2008. The problem is that a lot of the discussion about him is driven by his ERA and W-L record.

Manny when bad can be legendary. How most of his starts are OK to good (the 6 QS point that out).

Again he is a left hander with excellent stuff, for some reason lefties have traditionally matured later then right handers. It has taken them longer to command the strike zone.

Patience with Parra is a must. Trading him because you frustrated with him a season and third into his career is something the Yankees under the Boss used to do.

Giving up on a talented 25 or 26 year old left handed pitcher is the kind of thing that comes back to bite you.

I would not under any circumstance include Parra in any trade, unless we were getting something like one of the Uptons or Brady Sizemore back in return as part of the deal.

Warboss74:

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

A 3.82 ERA is pretty much better than a #2 starter performance, though. I think holding Parra to a high rotation standard at this point is faulty -- he does not have the control and he allows too many baserunners to realistically expect that type of performance.

He is a 3/4 pitcher ceiling right now, and I think that's fine. Why should we expect him to do better, and moreover, what aspects of his performance to date signify high rotation performance?

radio silence:

Warboss74:

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

A 3.82 ERA is pretty much better than a #2 starter performance, though. I think holding Parra to a high rotation standard at this point is faulty -- he does not have the control and he allows too many baserunners to realistically expect that type of performance.

He is a 3/4 pitcher ceiling right now, and I think that's fine. Why should we expect him to do better, and moreover, what aspects of his performance to date signify high rotation performance?

 

His stuff signifies a potential for high rotation performance, though he has yet to trust it enough. He has very good pitches, and if he puts it all together mentally, he has high physical potential (perfect game in minors, I know it's the minors, but it shows potential).

BenderTheOffender:

radio silence:

Warboss74:

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

A 3.82 ERA is pretty much better than a #2 starter performance, though. I think holding Parra to a high rotation standard at this point is faulty -- he does not have the control and he allows too many baserunners to realistically expect that type of performance.

He is a 3/4 pitcher ceiling right now, and I think that's fine. Why should we expect him to do better, and moreover, what aspects of his performance to date signify high rotation performance?

 

His stuff signifies a potential for high rotation performance, though he has yet to trust it enough. He has very good pitches, and if he puts it all together mentally, he has high physical potential (perfect game in minors, I know it's the minors, but it shows potential).

I agree, although I blame a lot of that on Kendall, too, who tends to call everyone like they're Jeff Suppan. I have stated it many times, and I'll state it again: Parra needs to pitch more like a Ben Sheets at times -- two pitches, just pick one of his off-speed pitches, and work an entire game with just two pitches. Now, he shouldn't get stubborn like Sheets, who almost seemed too stubborn to abandon his approach sometimes when his best stuff wasn't working (which only changed around '07 and '08); but, it's utterly ridiculous to (a) throw his fastball less than 60% of the time, and (b) pitch three different breaking balls /off-speed pitches off the corners.

Parra can worry about pitching like Jamie Moyer when he's 40 years old and lost his fastball. Right now, that kid needs to refine his mechanics, and I think the best way to do that would have him work a couple of starts with nothing but a fastball and his change, or a fastball/split, fastball/curve game. The best pitchers seem to master a 2-pitch game before they master a 4-pitch game, and I do not believe Parra has the command to be messing around with multiple pitches, and again, he has better stuff than "let's pitch off speed off of the corners."

radio silence:

BenderTheOffender:

radio silence:

Warboss74:

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

A 3.82 ERA is pretty much better than a #2 starter performance, though. I think holding Parra to a high rotation standard at this point is faulty -- he does not have the control and he allows too many baserunners to realistically expect that type of performance.

He is a 3/4 pitcher ceiling right now, and I think that's fine. Why should we expect him to do better, and moreover, what aspects of his performance to date signify high rotation performance?

 

His stuff signifies a potential for high rotation performance, though he has yet to trust it enough. He has very good pitches, and if he puts it all together mentally, he has high physical potential (perfect game in minors, I know it's the minors, but it shows potential).

I agree, although I blame a lot of that on Kendall, too, who tends to call everyone like they're Jeff Suppan. I have stated it many times, and I'll state it again: Parra needs to pitch more like a Ben Sheets at times -- two pitches, just pick one of his off-speed pitches, and work an entire game with just two pitches. Now, he shouldn't get stubborn like Sheets, who almost seemed too stubborn to abandon his approach sometimes when his best stuff wasn't working (which only changed around '07 and '08); but, it's utterly ridiculous to (a) throw his fastball less than 60% of the time, and (b) pitch three different breaking balls /off-speed pitches off the corners.

Parra can worry about pitching like Jamie Moyer when he's 40 years old and lost his fastball. Right now, that kid needs to refine his mechanics, and I think the best way to do that would have him work a couple of starts with nothing but a fastball and his change, or a fastball/split, fastball/curve game. The best pitchers seem to master a 2-pitch game before they master a 4-pitch game, and I do not believe Parra has the command to be messing around with multiple pitches, and again, he has better stuff than "let's pitch off speed off of the corners."

 

In complete agreement.

radio silence:

BenderTheOffender:

radio silence:

Warboss74:

Does it mean he's going to get into a 3-4 month groove/tear this year? No, but he's shown that he can turn around a poor start and pitch like a #2 pitcher. I think he's off to a better start this year, but because it's still early a blow up like he had in Minnesota will distort what he's done for us. I stand by my prediction of an ERA of 3.82(Jake Peavy's career ERA away from Petco) at the end of the season.

A 3.82 ERA is pretty much better than a #2 starter performance, though. I think holding Parra to a high rotation standard at this point is faulty -- he does not have the control and he allows too many baserunners to realistically expect that type of performance.

He is a 3/4 pitcher ceiling right now, and I think that's fine. Why should we expect him to do better, and moreover, what aspects of his performance to date signify high rotation performance?

 

His stuff signifies a potential for high rotation performance, though he has yet to trust it enough. He has very good pitches, and if he puts it all together mentally, he has high physical potential (perfect game in minors, I know it's the minors, but it shows potential).

I agree, although I blame a lot of that on Kendall, too, who tends to call everyone like they're Jeff Suppan. I have stated it many times, and I'll state it again: Parra needs to pitch more like a Ben Sheets at times -- two pitches, just pick one of his off-speed pitches, and work an entire game with just two pitches. Now, he shouldn't get stubborn like Sheets, who almost seemed too stubborn to abandon his approach sometimes when his best stuff wasn't working (which only changed around '07 and '08); but, it's utterly ridiculous to (a) throw his fastball less than 60% of the time, and (b) pitch three different breaking balls /off-speed pitches off the corners.

Parra can worry about pitching like Jamie Moyer when he's 40 years old and lost his fastball. Right now, that kid needs to refine his mechanics, and I think the best way to do that would have him work a couple of starts with nothing but a fastball and his change, or a fastball/split, fastball/curve game. The best pitchers seem to master a 2-pitch game before they master a 4-pitch game, and I do not believe Parra has the command to be messing around with multiple pitches, and again, he has better stuff than "let's pitch off speed off of the corners."

 

I could not agree more. I think he should go with the fastball/change combo, use his split occasionaly as a strike out pitch and use his curveball as more of a "show pitch" (even though it's a plus pitch).

Radio

His performance over June/July/August before he flamed out in September. It looked like, prior to Minnesota, he was going to start that run again. He has the stuff and shown flashes of being that guy. Maybe I'm a liitle high on the good and not low enough on the bad.

Warboss74:

Radio

His performance over June/July/August before he flamed out in September. It looked like, prior to Minnesota, he was going to start that run again. He has the stuff and shown flashes of being that guy. Maybe I'm a liitle high on the good and not low enough on the bad.

I guess I just see his best stretches differently, simply because they're not as long as the best stretches that top rotation pitchers go through. An example even on our own rotation in 2008 to 2009 -- Parra's best stretch in his career is 4 consecutive quality starts, and in 2008 he only managed stretches of 2 consecutive quality starts. Bush (becoming a fringe 2/3 pitcher, rather than a 3/4 like Parra), by comparison, has pitched 4 consecutive and 3 consecutive quality starts in 2009, and in 2008 had several stretches of 2 consecutive quality starts, and a high of 5 consecutive quality starts.

There is a big difference there, between 10 quality starts and 15 in a season; and top rotation pitchers will pitch even more, and have longer quality stretches. He simply has not shown the ability to pull that off due to a lack of command.