Yount Fan 19:

badger80:

Yount Fan 19:

I say we trade him for some starting pitching.  He isn't that great of a fielder, he's at best, a below average hitter, but for some reason he remains a highly rated prospect which means we could get someone with real talent for him.  I can't stand this guy, he's a big time risk when he plays 3rd and he really hasn't done much with the bat lately. 

Bottom line, TRADE HIM and TRADE HIM NOW!

This guy is a fake.  Who is using Yount Fan 19 as an alias?  Whoever you are, please just admit it.

 I'm not a fake, nor am I a troll, nor am I anybody special. I am just a die hard Brewer fan and I want the team that I have loved since 1992 (when I attended my first Brewer game)  to achive great things and there is something about Mat Gamel that I believe will prevent that from happening.  When he helps the team out, that's great, and I know he doesn't have much experience in the big leauges and it will take time for him to develop.  I think that since McGehee is producing very well, Gamel is not going to get much starting time and he is never gonna develop into the player that everyone says he is.  That's if he stays with Milwaukee.  If Melvin could trade him for some quality and reliable starting pitching we would both be getting a good deal.  Us, by having that starting pitching, won't be giving up very many runs and we'll win more games and Gamel because he'll get some valuable big leauge experience on a club that could make better use of him. 

What's gonna happen next year when Rickie is back and either Counsell, McGehee or Hall starts at Third.  Gamel will once again be shipped down to the minors, where he will play the majority of the season and put up outstanding numbers and when he does get a call up he'll be stagnant in the majors because all he'll do is sit around and start every once in awhile.   It happens all the time.  Gamel has value to him, so he could bring a fairly big name to the club that would help us. 

It's not that I hate Mat Gamel, I just think he's too much of a risk for the team to take a chance on right now.  If we didn't have McGehee or Counsell, then I would be all for him staying around, but McGehee has proven that he can handle big leauge pressure with such little playing time.  Gamel hasn't.   

Please, don't think of me as a troll or a fake.  I'm just a die hard Brewers fan and a die hard Robin Yount fan. 

 

 

 

Yount Fan 19,

 

I never believed you were a troll or a fake just wanted you to be aware of that.  I also think you need to be aware that not every top prospect is going to make a significant impact with their Major League team right when they are called up.  Even in a couple months.  I suggest you try to be a little more patient with Gamel.  Might just payoff for years to come.

 

From what I've seen of Gamel, he looks more like an Adam LaRoche type hitter than anything else.  Good, solid major league hitter, maybe a shade better than say Overbay, but not an All Star corner infielder.  I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one.  I'm a little leery of lefthanded young pitching quite frankly though.

It's funny how many that post that Escobar is overrated.  How many of you that say that have actually seen him play?  His minor league numbers are comparable to Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes. 

 

DaveinEG:

I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one.

 

How many LH bats do the Brewers have other then Fielder that are starters in the Brewers line-up today? None.  I don't see how the Brewers trade Gamel for that very reason...

DaveinEG:

From what I've seen of Gamel, he looks more like an Adam LaRoche type hitter than anything else.  Good, solid major league hitter, maybe a shade better than say Overbay, but not an All Star corner infielder.

I'm not sure I love the comp.

I don't know if Gamel has the raw power that LaRoche does, though he's got good power, but I know that he is going to consistently carry a higher average than LaRoche's career .272.

The issue is more that he almost certainly isn't going to stay at third base long term, despite his modestly postive showing of improvement thus far in the big leagues.

DaveinEG:

I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one. 

Neither would I, trying to pull off a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal somehow.

DaveinEG:

I'm a little leery of lefthanded young pitching quite frankly though.

Not sure that I care about that.

DaveinEG:

It's funny how many that post that Escobar is overrated.  How many of you that say that have actually seen him play?

All of us who watch the team regularly saw him last September and this spring, right?

What's more, unless you're a trained scout, you're not going to learn as much about a player seeing them a few times as you will by looking at a record of what they do on the field, the numbers...

DaveinEG:

His minor league numbers are comparable to Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes. 

1) No they're not.

You're ignoring the age factor, which is HUGE, in evaluating players.

2) Those guys projected better than Escobar did in the power/discipline aspects in scouting reports.

 

Terrible comp.

Einsteinhood:

DaveinEG:

From what I've seen of Gamel, he looks more like an Adam LaRoche type hitter than anything else.  Good, solid major league hitter, maybe a shade better than say Overbay, but not an All Star corner infielder.

I'm not sure I love the comp.

I don't know if Gamel has the raw power that LaRoche does, though he's got good power, but I know that he is going to consistently carry a higher average than LaRoche's career .272.

The issue is more that he almost certainly isn't going to stay at third base long term, despite his modestly postive showing of improvement thus far in the big leagues.

DaveinEG:

I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one. 

Neither would I, trying to pull off a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal somehow.

DaveinEG:

I'm a little leery of lefthanded young pitching quite frankly though.

Not sure that I care about that.

DaveinEG:

It's funny how many that post that Escobar is overrated.  How many of you that say that have actually seen him play?

All of us who watch the team regularly saw him last September and this spring, right?

What's more, unless you're a trained scout, you're not going to learn as much about a player seeing them a few times as you will by looking at a record of what they do on the field, the numbers...

DaveinEG:

His minor league numbers are comparable to Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes. 

1) No they're not.

You're ignoring the age factor, which is HUGE, in evaluating players.

2) Those guys projected better than Escobar did in the power/discipline aspects in scouting reports.

 

Terrible comp.

Im not sure about the Ramirez comparison, but how isnt Escobar compared to Reyes in the minors not even comparable? I know reyes was a couple years younger but he didnt have any power in the minors WHATSOEVER just like Escobar he had only 13 hr in 1303 abs his average was worse then Escobars and his obp is just slighty better, he didnt develop any power untill he reached the majors when he all a sudden was hitting about 20 hr a year. So again its not like the comparison was so far off like your trying to say its alot closer then alot of people probally think.

Let me try to post this for the THIRD time... why do my posts get gobbled.

I think Gamel down and Iribarren up is the right move.  And at AAA Heether should move over to 2nd and get the reps in there to prove he can play all three infield spots.

Then the Brewers, assuming McGehee, of course, is NOW our third baseman....

v lefties you can have Hall at third, Hardy ss, McGehee 2nd

but the more normal line up v righties would be McGehee 3rd, Hardy ss (Counsel giving the odd break), Counsel at 2nd (Iribarren giving the odd break)

I dont know the range of Iribarren, but he so, so rarely gives up errors, I think only 4 this year at 2nd at AAA.

sheetsnotbroke:

Let me try to post this for the THIRD time... why do my posts get gobbled.

I think Gamel down and Iribarren up is the right move.  And at AAA Heether should move over to 2nd and get the reps in there to prove he can play all three infield spots.

Then the Brewers, assuming McGehee, of course, is NOW our third baseman....

v lefties you can have Hall at third, Hardy ss, McGehee 2nd

but the more normal line up v righties would be McGehee 3rd, Hardy ss (Counsel giving the odd break), Counsel at 2nd (Iribarren giving the odd break)

I dont know the range of Iribarren, but he so, so rarely gives up errors, I think only 4 this year at 2nd at AAA.

Can we trade Hall for some baseballs?  He is dead weight taking up a roster spot. 

wisblue:

Einsteinhood:

princeofpower:

you just have to hope McGehee isnt in a 1 time streak or somehting

Given his whole history as a pro, my guess is that this is probably one of the best run's he'll ever have. Part of that is the fact that he is SO hot right now, but a sizeable part is that he just doesn't have the track record that suggests that he's going to be Ryan Braun II, which is about where he is.

That being said, when the guy is hot, RIDE THE STREAK. Take him for all he's worth right now. Now, if the team feels that strongly that Gamel needs regular work (and I'm not sold 100% one way or another) then they should send him down to get it, because McGehee needs to play everyday right now.

I agree with this. I don't expect it to be this extreme, but when someone with McGehee's background goes on a tear like this, people my age are reminded of Bob "Hurricane" Hazel, who came up to the Braves in July of 1957 because of a rash of injuries. Hazel was 26 years old (the same age as McGehee is now) and a career minor leaguer with only 13 previous major league at bats. But he came in blazing and helped the Braves' pennant charge by hitting .403 with an OPS of 1.126 in 155 plate appearances.

In 1958, Hazle started the season hitting .179 in 66 plate appearances and was traded to the Tigers, for whom he hit .241 in 63 more appearances before leaving the majors for good.

McGehee has been a wonderful and pleasant surprise, but it would be wrong and unfair to expect him to continue at anything close to this pace for long. I am much more confident that he will prove to be a valuable part time and utility player for the Brewers for the next few years.

It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more.  Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?

shipitdear:

It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more.  Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?

I'm sure there are plenty of examples.  I think it was the Astros who didn't protect Johan Santana and he ended up as a Rule 5 draft pick by the Twins.

badger80:

shipitdear:

It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more.  Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?

I'm sure there are plenty of examples.  I think it was the Astros who didn't protect Johan Santana and he ended up as a Rule 5 draft pick by the Twins.

I just read the history.  Yes, Stros left him unprotected in the Rule 5 draft.  Here's what happened:

The Twins had the first pick that year, the Marlins the second. The Twins made a deal with the Marlins: the Twins would draft Jared Camp with their first pick and the Marlins would draft Santana. The teams would exchange the two players with the Twins receiving $500,000 to cover their pick.

It's not really what I'm talking about.  The Astros missed on Santana but he wasn't released and he was obviously pegged as a good prospect to go number one in that draft.  Our guy has come from absolutely nowhere.   Who is the Johnny Unitas of MLB?  Has there been one?

 

 Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere. 

brewcrew143:

I know reyes was a couple years younger

You're being way to flip here.

A "couple of years" is HUGE in projection of prospects.

brewcrew143:

but he didnt have any power in the minors WHATSOEVER just like Escobar he had only 13 hr in 1303 abs

There is almost a 50 point difference in their career slugging percents, and about 10 more points of bump AE is getting from his batting average. He was also doing this younger.

Reyes was slugging well over .450 in 300+ AB's in the low minors as 18 and 19 year old and AE never got his SLG over .400 until he was a 21 year old in AA. 

That is a HUGE difference.

brewcrew143:

he didnt develop any power untill he reached the majors when he all a sudden was hitting about 20 hr a year.

No.

He was hitting doubles and triples in the minors, and some of them turned into HR's at the big league level.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT SLG, NOT HR TOTALS TO DETERMINE POWER.

brewcrew143:

So again its not like the comparison was so far off like your trying to say its alot closer then alot of people probally think.

Yes, it was a really bad comp, all things considered.

radio silence:

 Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere. 

Thanks  - and Posednik is a good example of getting something from nothing.  What are the main differences between the Cubs putting McGehee on waivers vs. releasing him?

shipitdear:

radio silence:

 Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere. 

Thanks  - and Posednik is a good example of getting something from nothing.  What are the main differences between the Cubs putting McGehee on waivers vs. releasing him?

 

Releasing McGehee would have made him a free agent.

 BTW, Ship (and everyone else), here's a fine transaction primer by Neyer. Bookmark it along with Cot's Baseball Contracts, and Milwaukee Brewers salaries from Brewfran.net, for league-wide and Brewers-specific transactions info / contract breakdowns.