robertj44:

You gotta give DeFelice some love, pitches 5,6,7,8,and 9 were all in the zone.

DiFelice pitched fine. I blame this on Macha, mostly, who called the first intentional walk, and took his pitcher out of an aggressive mindset, and out of his usual approach, and most importantly, purposefully took his pitcher out of the strike zone. I question the willingness to place Soto on after Bradley, rather than allow DiFelice a chance to make a good aggressive pitch, and see what Soto takes.

I was just talking with the lovely lady about this, and she and I both agree that it's not the worst thing if you pitch aggressively, and a batter beats you by swinging. I cannot stand watching scenarios in which a manager takes his pitcher out of the best case scenario for succeeding at the moment, and forces him to pitch in a more difficult situation.

geddymd72:

Daubs:

geddymd72:

robertj44:

I just checked GameDay that was the ninth pitch, pitch seven a called strike was outside of pitch nine, so two pitches later he call virtually the same pitch a ball that he just called a strike. What does everybody say after an ump establishes his zone early in the game? Be consistent, that's all, he can't be consistent within a two pitch time frame? Simply ludicrous, wtf were you looking at Geddy you fukk?

 

Pitch 7 was a foul ball. Of course it is a strike. Dumfukkk.

Geddy, compare pitch 3 to Theriot in the 1st to pitch 9 to Fox in the 10th....just to play off what Robert said....

 

Pitch 3 to Theriot was clearly a missed call. Look at Pitch 1 to Zambrano in the 3rd = ball. That ball is even further in the zone than the last pitch of the game. 

Nope, that was higher than either of the two pitches.  THAT pitch was solidly in the "borderline" area.

It was "further in the zone" ONLY in terms of being down the middle - but it was higher.

MLB needs to investigate the dirty umps. There are a handful and someone needs to launch an investigation.

alffan:

MLB needs to investigate the dirty umps. There are a handful and someone needs to launch an investigation.

Nothing will be done about it. It's part of the game.

alffan:

MLB needs to investigate the dirty umps. There are a handful and someone needs to launch an investigation.

All that needs to be done is automate the strike zone. None of this "such and such is a high and low zone," or "this guy has a short zone that goes well over the corners," or whatever else. Just have the strike zone, and enforce it. They have the technology to do it, now all they need to do is to use it.

You're in a tough spot if you have to hope you get a call from an ump who showed throughout the game he did not have a consistent strike zone. All I can say is if you can't do better than 1-for 11 with RISP, if you misplay fly balls, if you allow RBI singles to the opposing team's pitcher, if you can't lay down a bunt in crucial situations, well then, you sort of get what the Brewers got today. I'm convinced the Brewers are better than this. I expect them to turn it around.

Daubs:

geddymd72:

Daubs:

geddymd72:

robertj44:

I just checked GameDay that was the ninth pitch, pitch seven a called strike was outside of pitch nine, so two pitches later he call virtually the same pitch a ball that he just called a strike. What does everybody say after an ump establishes his zone early in the game? Be consistent, that's all, he can't be consistent within a two pitch time frame? Simply ludicrous, wtf were you looking at Geddy you fukk?

 

Pitch 7 was a foul ball. Of course it is a strike. Dumfukkk.

Geddy, compare pitch 3 to Theriot in the 1st to pitch 9 to Fox in the 10th....just to play off what Robert said....

 

Pitch 3 to Theriot was clearly a missed call. Look at Pitch 1 to Zambrano in the 3rd = ball. That ball is even further in the zone than the last pitch of the game. 

Nope, that was higher than either of the two pitches.  THAT pitch was solidly in the "borderline" area.

It was "further in the zone" ONLY in terms of being down the middle - but it was higher.

The last pitch int he 10th wasn't necessarily too high as much as it was too far inside. It was solidly on the left borderline area. The fans here act like it was right down the center. It clearly was not.

Fielder's walk in the 6th has an inside pitch for ball 4 on the line and not quite as high called a ball in a similar position on the other side. It really isn't a shocking call. If this call went up for review, there wouldn't be any question about its validity. You have several pitches throughout the game in similar areas called balls.

 

 

robertj44:

radio silence:

BTW, despite the ump's call, that was awful managing by Macha to finish the game. You don't take your pitcher intentionally out of the strike zone when the game is on the line with men on base.

I do not believe it is an uncommon thing for pitchers to lose the strike zone when they are forced to throw intentional balls, and this was a prime case.

This game is on Macha for those intentional walks as much as any single player for failure of execution. When it matters, force the batter to swing the bat, and make them beat you with an aggressive approach.

Not to mention the added pressure put on the pitcher, no balls in the dirt, can't get behind in the count, have to throw strikes, but damn the man did his job, threw nothing but strikes and got jobbed.

This is what I hate, and what I said as soon as the game ended. I'd like to think that a major league pitcher wouldn't lose his ability to throw strikes because he walks a batter intentionally, any more than he should lose it because he attempts a couple of pickoff throws or has to field a ball and throw to a base. But, I don't like removing the pitcher's margin of error and letting the hitter know that the pitcher HAS to throw strikes.

stix:

radio silence:

alffan:

It was high ...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/02_definition_of_terms.pdf

Refer yourself to the strike zone. Across the letters and through the plate (to the inside corner) is a strike.

If you put crosshairs on the plate, that pitch hit the crosshairs.

In no way, shape or form was that high. It was a dead strike. Right down the middle. In NO situation should that ever be called a ball. Ever. Totally unacceptable.

Almost as unacceptable as Macha taking it up the a** and not going out there to scream at the ump.

At any rate, it's been fun.

I'm taking a break for a while from this team. Certainly, I'm not watching the next two games. I'd like to enjoy my holiday weekend.

Maybe I'll come back later this season, but this is too dam frustrating.

Peace out, everyone. I wish the best of luck for the Brewers to the fans that can handle this s*** better than I.

I'm going on hiatus.

 

There is no way that pitch should ever be called a ball. Awful call. Bailed out the  batter who HAD to swing in that situation. Terrible.

I also agree about the intentional walk. I hate walking the bases loaded. It gives the pitcher no room for error.

radio silence:

Gents, I truly find Macha's situational managing questionable. He's way too cerebral, rather than trusting his guys to simply be in the position to succeed with their natural approach. His team doesn't run well (between 2008 and 2009, we're approx. -8 runs differential between 2008 team baserunning and 2009 baserunning), he doesn't bunt in key, close situations nearly enough (and I'm talking only about the 9th), and I just get the feeling with the IBBs that he's yanking his relievers around.

Not a good situational manager whatsoever.

Putting your opinion about Macha's decisionmaking aside for a moment, your comment about baserunning reminds me of something that occurred to me the other day. This was on Monday when the Brewers put tons of runners on base in the first few innings against the Mets, but only managed 3 runs, in part because runners were not able to score from second on a clean single to the outfield (Hardy) and from 3rd on a medium fly ball (Looper). There was a lot more "station to station" running in that game.

The thought is that the Brewers have now become an extremely slow team. Now that they have Counsell (with his various leg injuries) playing for Weeks and McGehee (with his various leg injuries) playing for Hall, the infield has to be the slowest in the majors. It improves slightly if Gamel plays. The outfield is pretty good with Braun, Cameron, and Hart, but on Monday they had Catalanatto playing right, dropping the team speed even further.

The real point is that, even with their "fastest" lineup (which includes Gamel), they have five players who range from slow to glacial. Most days they have 6 slow players and sometimes as many as 7. If the Brewers are down in baserunning from last year, only part of that can be attributed to Macha. Throw in the fact that the team has not been successful when it has tried to run, and it's easy to see why they aren't running much.

ptisme:

klwillis45:

Does anyone complain if Fox is rung up there?

The answer is No.

exactly, cubs fans go ballistic that he didn't swing...

As they did a few days ago when Fox took a called third strike to end one of their losses against the Giants.

That pitch in that situation is called a strike 995 times out of a thousand. Nevertheless, getting the call right would not have guaranteed a Brewers win, and maybe having this game taken away will be a little taste of Popeye's spinach for this team.

sidney lanier:

ptisme:

klwillis45:

Does anyone complain if Fox is rung up there?

The answer is No.

exactly, cubs fans go ballistic that he didn't swing...

As they did a few days ago when Fox took a called third strike to end one of their losses against the Giants.

That pitch in that situation is called a strike 995 times out of a thousand. Nevertheless, getting the call right would not have guaranteed a Brewers win, and maybe having this game taken away will be a little taste of Popeye's spinach for this team.

Don't count on it, Sid.

This team rolls over and dies, especially against the Cubs. They've gotten their a**es handed to them in EVERY big series against the Cubs the last three years.

After what happened today, I thought I'd read some comments expressing a little anger and some fiery attitudes. Nope, it was the same beat-dog comments they always make; "Well, I didn't make a very good pitch"......"It was a close play at home"....."We had some chances, give the Cubs pitchers credit"....on and on.

Aside from Braun, Fielder and Looper, there's no passion on this team. No fire. I know this isn't football and you can't win on emotion, but for Chrissakes, if you can't get pi**ed over this loss, what can you get pi**ed at? Other teams routinely show some dam emotion after games like that. If I were Macha, I would've chewed Welke's a** out.

But, no. Same tired refrain. Same beat-down attitude. This team is afraid of the Cubs. They hate playing them, they get all nervous and tense. I think they'd just prefer the series to be over, no matter what happens.

I fully expect them to get meekly 2-hit tomorrow.

Or maybe this is all just unfair. I don't know. I'm just pi**ed off.

Which is why it's good for me to take a break from this team and this board for awhile.

wisblue:

robertj44:

radio silence:

BTW, despite the ump's call, that was awful managing by Macha to finish the game. You don't take your pitcher intentionally out of the strike zone when the game is on the line with men on base.

I do not believe it is an uncommon thing for pitchers to lose the strike zone when they are forced to throw intentional balls, and this was a prime case.

This game is on Macha for those intentional walks as much as any single player for failure of execution. When it matters, force the batter to swing the bat, and make them beat you with an aggressive approach.

Not to mention the added pressure put on the pitcher, no balls in the dirt, can't get behind in the count, have to throw strikes, but damn the man did his job, threw nothing but strikes and got jobbed.

This is what I hate, and what I said as soon as the game ended. I'd like to think that a major league pitcher wouldn't lose his ability to throw strikes because he walks a batter intentionally, any more than he should lose it because he attempts a couple of pickoff throws or has to field a ball and throw to a base. But, I don't like removing the pitcher's margin of error and letting the hitter know that the pitcher HAS to throw strikes.

Bingo on the margin of error comment.

Even though DiFelice is a pro, an IBB still does a few things: (a) it changes his reference for throwing, (b) changes his mechanics and the effort at which he throws for a plate appearance, and (c) changes his objective (throwing strikes).

I know that that's not an excuse, and I don't mean it as one; I just mean to point out that if you take your pitcher away from his objective, and don't force him to consistently repeat his mechanics (you don't really repeat mechanics in the same way on an IBB, given the change in reference point and throwing effort), you're opening up the door for error.