And Ogunleye.

Look, guys are as good as they are.  We just make them a little bit better than they are against other teams.  So, if Jared Allen looks like one of the best DEs in the NFL regularly, then we make him look like the greatest DE of all time.  I don't know why that is minimizing anything.  Hell, he'd have like 50 sacks if he played against us for 16 games - to say that he wouldn't have 50 sacks otherwise isn't minimizing him, it's just being realistic.

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

brewhas28:

Dont get me wrong hes a good player, but he can be stopped. He has 7.5 out of his 10.5 sacks against the Pack, so outside of getting all those sacks against our horrible line he hasnt done much.

 

 

Of course he hasn't.  He's also has the 2nd most tackles of any DE in the NFL.  The leader in tackles for DE's has 3.5 sacks.  So I would venture to say that it's not much of a stretch to say he's the best DE in the NFL.

It's not his fault the packers are on his schedule twice this year.

 

T

ike1024:

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

 

I think Minnesota qualifies to be in the class of Indy and NO. They have the best RB, a very good OL, a QB who is hitting on all cylinders, and some excellent WRs that are coming on in Sidney Rice and Harvin (who also may be the best return man in the NFL). On Defense they have some great players in the Williams boys, Allen is an early D-MVP candidate, and don't forget they didn't even have WInfield in the GB game. 

No man, your hate for the Vikes must be the only reason you don't think they should be in the elite company. I hate them too, but I'm not delusional- they're one of the best teams in the NFL right now. 

brewhas28:

Dont get me wrong hes a good player, but he can be stopped. He has 7.5 out of his 10.5 sacks against the Pack, so outside of getting all those sacks against our horrible line he hasnt done much.

 LOL!

You can't make this stuff up!

 

Destinos2:

ike1024:

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

 

I think Minnesota qualifies to be in the class of Indy and NO. They have the best RB, a very good OL, a QB who is hitting on all cylinders, and some excellent WRs that are coming on in Sidney Rice and Harvin (who also may be the best return man in the NFL). On Defense they have some great players in the Williams boys, Allen is an early D-MVP candidate, and don't forget they didn't even have WInfield in the GB game. 

No man, your hate for the Vikes must be the only reason you don't think they should be in the elite company. I hate them too, but I'm not delusional- they're one of the best teams in the NFL right now. 

Another excellent post. I despise the Vikings, I really, really do, but it is about time Packer fans stop pretending we are in their class. When we were wasting the #5 pick on Hawk, the Vikes took Greenway who can play at #17. When we neglected free agency, they signed pro-bowlers Hutchinson, Pat Williams, and Winfield among others. While TT has selected smaller lineman from mediocre college programs, the Vikes took Sullivan and Loadholt (who has done more in 2 games against the Pack by shutting out Kampman than TT picks Moll, Giancomini, Spitz, Barbre, Colledge and others have done in their careers). We simply have no one as talented as Peterson, who is only in his 3rd year. The one glaring problem for them has been QB and that has been resolved. Unfortunately, I think the Vikings are the most complete team in the NFL. At this point, I hope and pray that the Saints get home field advantage, because I think the Vikes can be outscored and that is one thing Drew Brees and the Saints do better than anyone else -- especially in the Superdome.

ike1024:

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

 I'm not sure what your definition of "elite" is, undefeated maybe?  Do you think that the Pats or the Broncos are "elite"?  The Vikings have been ranked in the top 5 in all of those "power rankings" since week 4, even after the narrow loss to the World Champions on the road.  They have to at least be considered very close to "elite" status.  7-1 is a very good record going into the bye with three home games coming up.

 

15 November - Lions at Vikings, WIN 8-1

22 November - Seattle at Vikings, WIN 9-1

29 November - Bears at Vikings, WIN 10-1

6 December - Vikings at Cardinals LOSS 10-2

13 December - Bengals at Vikings LOSS 10-3

20 December - Vikings at Panthers WIN 11-3

28 December - Vikings at Bears LOSS 11-4

3 January 10 - Giants at Vikings LOSS 11-5

 

This is a conservative prediction wherein the Vikings lose to any team that's over .500 (plus a split with Chicago).  Hell, Tavaris Jackson could lead the team to this outcome.  There's always next year, Packers.

 

 

SOME YOUNG GUY:

ike1024:

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

 I'm not sure what your definition of "elite" is, undefeated maybe?  Do you think that the Pats or the Broncos are "elite"?  The Vikings have been ranked in the top 5 in all of those "power rankings" since week 4, even after the narrow loss to the World Champions on the road.  They have to at least be considered very close to "elite" status.  7-1 is a very good record going into the bye with three home games coming up.

 

15 November - Lions at Vikings, WIN 8-1

22 November - Seattle at Vikings, WIN 9-1

29 November - Bears at Vikings, WIN 10-1

6 December - Vikings at Cardinals LOSS 10-2

13 December - Bengals at Vikings LOSS WIN 11-2

20 December - Vikings at Panthers WIN 12-2

28 December - Vikings at Bears LOSS 12-3

3 January 10 - Giants at Vikings LOSS WIN 13-3

 

This is a conservative prediction wherein the Vikings lose to any team that's over .500 (plus a split with Chicago).  Hell, Tavaris Jackson could lead the team to this outcome.  There's always next year, Packers.

 

 

 

Fixed 

Destinos2:

No man, your hate for the Vikes must be the only reason you don't think they should be in the elite company. I hate them too, but I'm not delusional- they're one of the best teams in the NFL right now. 

Let me address this first.  You know nothing about me.  Basing opinions on something less than an assumption is fairly indicative of someone incapable of critical analysis.  If I was you, I would stick to talking about football.

Destinos2:

I think Minnesota qualifies to be in the class of Indy and NO. They have the best RB, a very good OL, a QB who is hitting on all cylinders, and some excellent WRs that are coming on in Sidney Rice and Harvin (who also may be the best return man in the NFL). On Defense they have some great players in the Williams boys, Allen is an early D-MVP candidate, and don't forget they didn't even have WInfield in the GB game. 

Weird that you didn't address my actual point.

It's weird that for all of these amazing players, they just haven't been that dominant.  Again, what game would you point to this year to prove their eliteness?

Oh, and by the way, I know more about Vikings football than you.  A lot more.  You couldn't possibly have watched more than me because I've watched essentially every second of every one of their games.  So, I feel plenty qualified to say that while they might be an elite team, they certainly haven't played like it.

SOME YOUNG GUY:

ike1024:

bp:

Well, "vastly" might be a strong term - but MN has jumped way ahead of us. They are the much better team. GB may be no better than middle of the road. MN is an elite team. Time will tell.

Yeah, it will.

I don't think they are particularly elite.  They really haven't beaten another team at the "elite" level.  I might be wrong, but I'd like to see them play Indy or NO before I start calling them elite.  And people can stop with the "you must not watch the NFL" deflection, I live in MN and watch the Vikes every week.  I watched them struggle in the first half against the Browns and Lions and get "lucky" against the Niners/Ravens.  Yes, I know, good teams win those game, and the Vikes are undoubtedly good, but they've only played two good teams, neither I would consider "elite," and are 1-1 in those games.

 I'm not sure what your definition of "elite" is, undefeated maybe?  Do you think that the Pats or the Broncos are "elite"?  The Vikings have been ranked in the top 5 in all of those "power rankings" since week 4, even after the narrow loss to the World Champions on the road.  They have to at least be considered very close to "elite" status.  7-1 is a very good record going into the bye with three home games coming up.

 

15 November - Lions at Vikings, WIN 8-1

22 November - Seattle at Vikings, WIN 9-1

29 November - Bears at Vikings, WIN 10-1

6 December - Vikings at Cardinals LOSS 10-2

13 December - Bengals at Vikings LOSS 10-3

20 December - Vikings at Panthers WIN 11-3

28 December - Vikings at Bears LOSS 11-4

3 January 10 - Giants at Vikings LOSS 11-5

This is a conservative prediction wherein the Vikings lose to any team that's over .500 (plus a split with Chicago).  Hell, Tavaris Jackson could lead the team to this outcome.  There's always next year, Packers.

My definition of "elite" is that they consistently outplay every team they face.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other guy: which games (or even game) would you point to to prove that they are elite?

It's not about your record, it's about the way you play.  In the end, yeah, record is what matters, but record is less indicative of playoff success than how you win games.

etorkelson:

but it is about time Packer fans stop pretending we are in their class

Never said we are.

That doesn't mean that the Vikings are elite, it means that the Packers are mediocre.

ike1024:

etorkelson:

but it is about time Packer fans stop pretending we are in their class

Never said we are.

That doesn't mean that the Vikings are elite, it means that the Packers are mediocre.

 

The Packers are not that good, let's all be honest about that. The Packers are an average team, and that's that. 

The Vikings beat the "average" Packers twice. They beat the "Average" 49ers. Then they beat some bad teams. The Vikings played 1 elite team and lost. People get so damn defensive if you dare say anything bad about the Vikings. It's like people who criticize Obama's policies, then Obama supporters will say "you're racist". It's the same BS.

The Vikings are a good team that beats the teams they should beat, no denying that. Even thought they couldn't put any of them away, even the Browns had the lead in the 3rd quarter. That doesn't happen with elite teams.

There's a reason why every sports talking head out there says the Saints are the team to beat in the NFC. It's not just people on the Packers forum.

 

ike1024:

etorkelson:

but it is about time Packer fans stop pretending we are in their class

Never said we are.

That doesn't mean that the Vikings are elite, it means that the Packers are mediocre.

Are the Saints elite, or mediocre?

bp:

Are the Saints elite, or mediocre?

I assume you're implying that I said the Vikings are mediocre.  If that's the case, learn to read.

The Saints are elite.  The Vikings are on the next level.  The Packers are a level below that.

dsilby:

There's a reason why every sports talking head out there says the Saints are the team to beat in the NFC.

Exactly.  My roommate is a diehard Vikes fan and openly admits he doesn't want to see the Vikes play the Saints in the playoffs - at least not how both teams are playing right now.