Brewers Message Board

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

BrewerFanatic — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:24:43 GMT

Tidbits
Brewers general manager Doug Melvin and Macha will meet Tuesday to make two important decisions. They'll need to identify a starting pitcher to join the rotation on either Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday (there's some flexibility, Macha said), and they will also decide whether third base prospect Mat Gamel, whose playing time has evaporated, would be better playing every day at Triple-A Nashville. If Melvin doesn't make a trade first, one option to pitch is left-hander Manny Parra, who was demoted to Nashville last month and pitched seven scoreless innings on Friday. Parra's next scheduled start is Wednesday. ... Melvin wouldn't say much about his intentions for Gamel, who has only four plate appearances this month and just 15 in the Brewers' past 12 games. "If we have a roster move, we'll let you know," Melvin said. If the Brewers indeed send Gamel back to Nashville, they would promote another position player, Macha said. ... Injured right-hander Dave Bush (triceps) told Macha he felt fine on Saturday, a day after ramping up his throwing program. Bush is slated for a Minor League rehab start for Double-A Huntsville on July 15. "He's on track, so let's hope we keep it that way," Macha said.

Going to be interesting. I would like to see Gamel play everyday at 3B and McGhee at 2B. Burns is going to have to swap out with Wright or Dillard and Narveson should go when Bush gets off the DL. CC will have to go back to PH or defensive replacement for Gamel. DFA Hall, please. Just bite the bullet and do it. We would be a better team with Heether.

My first preference though is to go out and get Aubrey Huff and send Gamel to AAA to work at the OF

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

SeattlePilot — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:14:15 GMT

I really don't like the way Ken Macha has handled Gamel since being called up. In fact I'm not very impressed with the way Macha has managed the club so far. People were all over Yost last year but Yost seemed to have a better feel for younger players. Personally I think Melvin made a big mistake hiring Macha to be the manager. Yost may not have been the answer either but Macha definitely isn't the right man for the job. So the answer is to keep Gamel and get rid of Macha.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

shipitdear — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:19:44 GMT

radio silence:

BTW, Ship (and everyone else), here's a fine transaction primer by Neyer. Bookmark it along with Cot's Baseball Contracts, and Milwaukee Brewers salaries from Brewfran.net, for league-wide and Brewers-specific transactions info / contract breakdowns.

thanks Radio - will absolutely check it out.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

radio silence — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:09:28 GMT

BTW, Ship (and everyone else), here's a fine transaction primer by Neyer. Bookmark it along with Cot's Baseball Contracts, and Milwaukee Brewers salaries from Brewfran.net, for league-wide and Brewers-specific transactions info / contract breakdowns.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

radio silence — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:02:51 GMT

shipitdear:
radio silence:

Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere.
Thanks - and Posednik is a good example of getting something from nothing. What are the main differences between the Cubs putting McGehee on waivers vs. releasing him?

Releasing McGehee would have made him a free agent.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

shipitdear — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:57:52 GMT

radio silence:

Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere.

Thanks - and Posednik is a good example of getting something from nothing. What are the main differences between the Cubs putting McGehee on waivers vs. releasing him?

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

Einsteinhood — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:39:15 GMT

brewcrew143:
I know reyes was a couple years younger

You're being way to flip here.

A "couple of years" is HUGE in projection of prospects.

brewcrew143:
but he didnt have any power in the minors WHATSOEVER just like Escobar he had only 13 hr in 1303 abs

There is almost a 50 point difference in their career slugging percents, and about 10 more points of bump AE is getting from his batting average. He was also doing this younger.

Reyes was slugging well over .450 in 300+ AB's in the low minors as 18 and 19 year old and AE never got his SLG over .400 until he was a 21 year old in AA.

That is a HUGE difference.

brewcrew143:
he didnt develop any power untill he reached the majors when he all a sudden was hitting about 20 hr a year.

No.

He was hitting doubles and triples in the minors, and some of them turned into HR's at the big league level.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT SLG, NOT HR TOTALS TO DETERMINE POWER.

brewcrew143:
So again its not like the comparison was so far off like your trying to say its alot closer then alot of people probally think.

Yes, it was a really bad comp, all things considered.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

radio silence — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:02:30 GMT

Let's be clear -- McGehee wasn't released, he was claimed off of waivers.

Waiver claims are rather common in MLB, especially if you're looking for players that simply have short term impact (like McGehee).

Scott Podsednik is one of the best Brewers examples I can think of, as a player simply picked off of waivers that ended up having good short term value out of nowhere.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

shipitdear — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:23:53 GMT

badger80:

shipitdear:

It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more. Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?
I'm sure there are plenty of examples. I think it was the Astros who didn't protect Johan Santana and he ended up as a Rule 5 draft pick by the Twins.

I just read the history. Yes, Stros left him unprotected in the Rule 5 draft. Here's what happened:

The Twins had the first pick that year, the Marlins the second. The Twins made a deal with the Marlins: the Twins would draft Jared Camp with their first pick and the Marlins would draft Santana. The teams would exchange the two players with the Twins receiving $500,000 to cover their pick.

It's not really what I'm talking about. The Astros missed on Santana but he wasn't released and he was obviously pegged as a good prospect to go number one in that draft. Our guy has come from absolutely nowhere. Who is the Johnny Unitas of MLB? Has there been one?

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

badger80 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:28:22 GMT

shipitdear:
It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more. Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?

I'm sure there are plenty of examples. I think it was the Astros who didn't protect Johan Santana and he ended up as a Rule 5 draft pick by the Twins.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

shipitdear — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:44:21 GMT

wisblue:

Einsteinhood:

princeofpower:
you just have to hope McGehee isnt in a 1 time streak or somehting
Given his whole history as a pro, my guess is that this is probably one of the best run's he'll ever have. Part of that is the fact that he is SO hot right now, but a sizeable part is that he just doesn't have the track record that suggests that he's going to be Ryan Braun II, which is about where he is.

That being said, when the guy is hot, RIDE THE STREAK. Take him for all he's worth right now. Now, if the team feels that strongly that Gamel needs regular work (and I'm not sold 100% one way or another) then they should send him down to get it, because McGehee needs to play everyday right now.

I agree with this. I don't expect it to be this extreme, but when someone with McGehee's background goes on a tear like this, people my age are reminded of Bob "Hurricane" Hazel, who came up to the Braves in July of 1957 because of a rash of injuries. Hazel was 26 years old (the same age as McGehee is now) and a career minor leaguer with only 13 previous major league at bats. But he came in blazing and helped the Braves' pennant charge by hitting .403 with an OPS of 1.126 in 155 plate appearances.

In 1958, Hazle started the season hitting .179 in 66 plate appearances and was traded to the Tigers, for whom he hit .241 in 63 more appearances before leaving the majors for good.

McGehee has been a wonderful and pleasant surprise, but it would be wrong and unfair to expect him to continue at anything close to this pace for long. I am much more confident that he will prove to be a valuable part time and utility player for the Brewers for the next few years.

It's what my gut says but I am of course hoping for more. Has there been a story in MLB where an unknown is relelased from one team and goes on to have a stellar career w/ someone else?

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

fmrmarinesgt97 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:12:53 GMT

sheetsnotbroke:
Let me try to post this for the THIRD time... why do my posts get gobbled.

I think Gamel down and Iribarren up is the right move. And at AAA Heether should move over to 2nd and get the reps in there to prove he can play all three infield spots.

Then the Brewers, assuming McGehee, of course, is NOW our third baseman....

v lefties you can have Hall at third, Hardy ss, McGehee 2nd

but the more normal line up v righties would be McGehee 3rd, Hardy ss (Counsel giving the odd break), Counsel at 2nd (Iribarren giving the odd break)

I dont know the range of Iribarren, but he so, so rarely gives up errors, I think only 4 this year at 2nd at AAA.

Can we trade Hall for some baseballs? He is dead weight taking up a roster spot.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:10:36 GMT

Let me try to post this for the THIRD time... why do my posts get gobbled.

I think Gamel down and Iribarren up is the right move. And at AAA Heether should move over to 2nd and get the reps in there to prove he can play all three infield spots.

Then the Brewers, assuming McGehee, of course, is NOW our third baseman....

v lefties you can have Hall at third, Hardy ss, McGehee 2nd

but the more normal line up v righties would be McGehee 3rd, Hardy ss (Counsel giving the odd break), Counsel at 2nd (Iribarren giving the odd break)

I dont know the range of Iribarren, but he so, so rarely gives up errors, I think only 4 this year at 2nd at AAA.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

brewcrew143 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:25:25 GMT

Einsteinhood:

DaveinEG:
From what I've seen of Gamel, he looks more like an Adam LaRoche type hitter than anything else. Good, solid major league hitter, maybe a shade better than say Overbay, but not an All Star corner infielder.
I'm not sure I love the comp.

I don't know if Gamel has the raw power that LaRoche does, though he's got good power, but I know that he is going to consistently carry a higher average than LaRoche's career .272.

The issue is more that he almost certainly isn't going to stay at third base long term, despite his modestly postive showing of improvement thus far in the big leagues.

DaveinEG:
I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one.
Neither would I, trying to pull off a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal somehow.

DaveinEG:
I'm a little leery of lefthanded young pitching quite frankly though.
Not sure that I care about that.

DaveinEG:
It's funny how many that post that Escobar is overrated. How many of you that say that have actually seen him play?
All of us who watch the team regularly saw him last September and this spring, right?

What's more, unless you're a trained scout, you're not going to learn as much about a player seeing them a few times as you will by looking at a record of what they do on the field, the numbers...

DaveinEG:
His minor league numbers are comparable to Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes.
1) No they're not.

You're ignoring the age factor, which is HUGE, in evaluating players.

2) Those guys projected better than Escobar did in the power/discipline aspects in scouting reports.

Terrible comp.

Im not sure about the Ramirez comparison, but how isnt Escobar compared to Reyes in the minors not even comparable? I know reyes was a couple years younger but he didnt have any power in the minors WHATSOEVER just like Escobar he had only 13 hr in 1303 abs his average was worse then Escobars and his obp is just slighty better, he didnt develop any power untill he reached the majors when he all a sudden was hitting about 20 hr a year. So again its not like the comparison was so far off like your trying to say its alot closer then alot of people probally think.

Re: Gamel possibly back to minors

Einsteinhood — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:55:35 GMT

DaveinEG:
From what I've seen of Gamel, he looks more like an Adam LaRoche type hitter than anything else. Good, solid major league hitter, maybe a shade better than say Overbay, but not an All Star corner infielder.

I'm not sure I love the comp.

I don't know if Gamel has the raw power that LaRoche does, though he's got good power, but I know that he is going to consistently carry a higher average than LaRoche's career .272.

The issue is more that he almost certainly isn't going to stay at third base long term, despite his modestly postive showing of improvement thus far in the big leagues.

DaveinEG:
I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him for a stud major league ready young pitcher for the simple reason that they need a pitcher and they don't have one.

Neither would I, trying to pull off a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal somehow.

DaveinEG:
I'm a little leery of lefthanded young pitching quite frankly though.

Not sure that I care about that.

DaveinEG:
It's funny how many that post that Escobar is overrated. How many of you that say that have actually seen him play?

All of us who watch the team regularly saw him last September and this spring, right?

What's more, unless you're a trained scout, you're not going to learn as much about a player seeing them a few times as you will by looking at a record of what they do on the field, the numbers...

DaveinEG:
His minor league numbers are comparable to Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes.

1) No they're not.

You're ignoring the age factor, which is HUGE, in evaluating players.

2) Those guys projected better than Escobar did in the power/discipline aspects in scouting reports.

Terrible comp.