Brewers Message Board

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:27:20 GMT

This is a Jody Gerut thread. It certainly is a Gerut sucks argument.

Gwynn is playing every day and if he sucked so much, he wouldn't be out of an everyday lineup and he wouldn't be getting on base at all- which is obviously not the case. In fact Gwynn got a hit in 28 of his last 37 games. Gerut is an afterthought even in a pinch hitting role. Gerut sucks through and through to the core.

Re: jody gerut

ike1024 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:01:48 GMT

cor232000:
But IMO, Both Gwynn and Gerut suck..

Agreed.

Re: jody gerut

cor232000 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:58:23 GMT

IMO, in general they both suck.. Gwynn has never been good and Gerut was good for one season and as others pointed out, Bill Hall and Jose Hernandez also had a great season or two that doesn't mean they're going to continually have good seasons..

I don't care what he did last year, I care what he's doing now and that's close to nothing and I certainly don't think Tony Gwynn Jr. would be the answer.. But, if Gerut doesn't figure it out quickly something has to be done.. I'd argue he's worse than Duffy was..

I think Bourgeois is a decent option because he can hit for average, steal some bases, and is versatile..Although he has little slugging to offer.. I think the Hurricane and Heether could also be options for hitter off the bench.. Or we'll have to look for someone outside the organization.

But IMO, Both Gwynn and Gerut suck..

Re: jody gerut

ike1024 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:02:48 GMT

You can try to pass this argument off as a "Gerut sucks" argument, but it's not - it's a "Gwynn sucks" argument. Gwynn sucks at getting on base, he sucks at hitting for power, he sucks at fielding apparently also. Gwynn sucks in general.

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:42:53 GMT

Gwynn is a singles hitter. No one has ever made bones about that. He is not hurting the team by getting on base.

OPS in general is inherently flawed anyway. Slugging percentage is inappropriately weighted in terms of their actual run values for singles, doubles, triples. OBP gets much less credit than it deserves as OPS is dominated by slugging percentage. This is one of the main reasons why Gerut had a high OPS in the past. Its not that Gerut gets on base more (in fact the two players have exactly equal career OBP's at .328), it is just that when he did, he did so for more power.

Re: jody gerut

ike1024 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:48:43 GMT

geddymd72:
Over the past 20 games, Tony Gwynn is 23 for 79. Thats .291.. How is that hurting a team that bats .230?

Well now he's .276 over the past 20 games including today. And he didn't start today. Wonder why? It's not because he's OPSing under .700 over the past 20 games, is it?

How can you hurt a crappy offensive team? By being even crappier.

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:31:54 GMT

ike1024:
geddymd72:
Right now, Gwynn is doing it. Not much to argue there. Likelihood or not, 146 plate appearances and an OPS of .788. Gerut is not going to get 146 plate appearences for the season, unless the Brewers totally throw in the towel.

Yes, Gwynn is truly helping the Padres - at least as much as Gerut is helping the Brewers.

Gwynn in his last 75 ABs - .267/.317/.373/.690 - and let's not forget the FOUR OF errors he already has. Yeah, he's been awesome.

I'll take Gerut not playing over Gwynn playing because Gwynn is actually hurting his team over the past 20 games, Gerut is just irrelevant.

Irrelevant > Harmful

Gerut is plenty harmful. In yesterdays 1-0 loss, he hits into a double play in the 5th killing that inning. He left several men on base, in bases loaded situations, in the Detroit loss. In fact, in bases loaded situations this year, he is batting .000. Men in scoring position .172. He is the worst guy to have up with men on base.

Over the past 20 games, Tony Gwynn is 23 for 79. Thats .291.. How is that hurting a team that bats .230?

Re: jody gerut

ike1024 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:41:35 GMT

geddymd72:
Right now, Gwynn is doing it. Not much to argue there. Likelihood or not, 146 plate appearances and an OPS of .788. Gerut is not going to get 146 plate appearences for the season, unless the Brewers totally throw in the towel.

Yes, Gwynn is truly helping the Padres - at least as much as Gerut is helping the Brewers.

Gwynn in his last 75 ABs - .267/.317/.373/.690 - and let's not forget the FOUR OF errors he already has. Yeah, he's been awesome.

I'll take Gerut not playing over Gwynn playing because Gwynn is actually hurting his team over the past 20 games, Gerut is just irrelevant.

Irrelevant > Harmful

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:28:26 GMT

ike1024:
geddymd72:

MrQuestions:

geddymd72:
Its called an "anomaly" just like Bill Hall's one good season. Gerut will never sustain another .845 OPS.

Maybe not, but I think Gerut's chances of performing at a similar rate to last year are much better than Gwynn's chances of playing .100 points of OPS better than he's ever played in his life against better competition than he's ever faced.

If you have even watched Jody Gerut's approach at the plate these last few weeks, those chances look really grim. Gerut has little to no patience at the plate. I know Sveum has been stressing his hitters to be more patient at the plate, but I don't see Gerut buying into it. Gerut swings early and often. There is no player on the Brewers who has less pitches per PA than Gerut. This guy even makes Johnny Estrada look like a patient hitter. Gerut is lucky to get more than 2 walks a month. In May, he walked once with 58 at bats.

Way to ackowledge his point about Gwynn, "doctor."

Right now, Gwynn is doing it. Not much to argue there. Likelihood or not, 146 plate appearances and an OPS of .788. Gerut is not going to get 146 plate appearences for the season, unless the Brewers totally throw in the towel.

Re: jody gerut

ike1024 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:36:29 GMT

geddymd72:

MrQuestions:

geddymd72:
Its called an "anomaly" just like Bill Hall's one good season. Gerut will never sustain another .845 OPS.

Maybe not, but I think Gerut's chances of performing at a similar rate to last year are much better than Gwynn's chances of playing .100 points of OPS better than he's ever played in his life against better competition than he's ever faced.

If you have even watched Jody Gerut's approach at the plate these last few weeks, those chances look really grim. Gerut has little to no patience at the plate. I know Sveum has been stressing his hitters to be more patient at the plate, but I don't see Gerut buying into it. Gerut swings early and often. There is no player on the Brewers who has less pitches per PA than Gerut. This guy even makes Johnny Estrada look like a patient hitter. Gerut is lucky to get more than 2 walks a month. In May, he walked once with 58 at bats.

Way to ackowledge his point about Gwynn, "doctor."

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:52:18 GMT

MrQuestions:
geddymd72:
Its called an "anomaly" just like Bill Hall's one good season. Gerut will never sustain another .845 OPS.

Maybe not, but I think Gerut's chances of performing at a similar rate to last year are much better than Gwynn's chances of playing .100 points of OPS better than he's ever played in his life against better competition than he's ever faced.

If you have even watched Jody Gerut's approach at the plate these last few weeks, those chances look really grim. Gerut has little to no patience at the plate. I know Sveum has been stressing his hitters to be more patient at the plate, but I don't see Gerut buying into it. Gerut swings early and often. There is no player on the Brewers who has less pitches per PA than Gerut. This guy even makes Johnny Estrada look like a patient hitter. Gerut is lucky to get more than 2 walks a month. In May, he walked once with 58 at bats.

Re: jody gerut

MrQuestions — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:37:26 GMT

geddymd72:
Its called an "anomaly" just like Bill Hall's one good season. Gerut will never sustain another .845 OPS.

Maybe not, but I think Gerut's chances of performing at a similar rate to last year are much better than Gwynn's chances of playing .100 points of OPS better than he's ever played in his life against better competition than he's ever faced.

Re: jody gerut

geddymd72 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:19:48 GMT

BenderTheOffender:
badger80:
MrQuestions:
badger80:
He's 31-years old and was out of the game for a couple years. He has no upside. I don't think Gwynn was going to do anything worthwhile, but like I said, the Brewers got what they paid for. They swapped 4th outfielders.

If Gerut has "no upside" then TGjr must have negative upside.
Gerut posted an .845 OPS last season.
TGjr has never posted an .OPS above .800 in all his years in the minors.TGjr's career minor league OPS is BELOW .700. 4 out of his 7 years in the Minor leagues he posted an OPS below .700. How he has upside I do not understand.
Gerut doesn't have the upside because he isn't getting any younger. Gwynn doesn't have upside because he doesn't have the talent.

Did you read that? .845 OPS last season, that's 1 year ago, not in his distant past. I'm not saying he will repeat that obviously, but even if he could reach anywhere near that he would be a very productive player. Players normally don't just go from .845 OPS one year to "having no upside" as if he's getting into his 40s or something.

Its called an "anomaly" just like Bill Hall's one good season. Gerut will never sustain another .845 OPS.

Re: jody gerut

BenderTheOffender — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:56:02 GMT

badger80:
MrQuestions:
badger80:
He's 31-years old and was out of the game for a couple years. He has no upside. I don't think Gwynn was going to do anything worthwhile, but like I said, the Brewers got what they paid for. They swapped 4th outfielders.

If Gerut has "no upside" then TGjr must have negative upside.
Gerut posted an .845 OPS last season.
TGjr has never posted an .OPS above .800 in all his years in the minors.TGjr's career minor league OPS is BELOW .700. 4 out of his 7 years in the Minor leagues he posted an OPS below .700. How he has upside I do not understand.
Gerut doesn't have the upside because he isn't getting any younger. Gwynn doesn't have upside because he doesn't have the talent.

Did you read that? .845 OPS last season, that's 1 year ago, not in his distant past. I'm not saying he will repeat that obviously, but even if he could reach anywhere near that he would be a very productive player. Players normally don't just go from .845 OPS one year to "having no upside" as if he's getting into his 40s or something.

Re: jody gerut

MrQuestions — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:53:38 GMT

badger80:
Gerut doesn't have the upside because he isn't getting any younger. Gwynn doesn't have upside because he doesn't have the talent.

Oh yeah, I'm not trying to say Gerut has mad future upside beyond this season or anything, just that his performance ceiling for the rest of this season is most likely higher than that of TGjr based on the history of both players.