Brewers Message Board

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

TheDude — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:45:10 GMT

shipitdear:

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

But it can confuse an umpire when a batter does that . Combine this w/ Kendall catching the ball above his own eyes and it makes it a tougher call. These things factor in as to why I think that pitch is going to be called a ball more often than folks on this board want to admit. I agree w/ Radio- if they have the technology to take the guessing out of the ball and strike calls they should use it. As long as you have human beings making the calls things that shouldn't factor in will. Of course for the millionth time it shouldn't have come down to the human element deciding a borderline pitch. The Brewers had the Cubs on the ropes over and over and couldn't knock them out.

As long as those humans get paid a lot to be umpires for professional baseball, they shouldn't interperate rules but follow them.

And yes, the Brewers screwed the pooch multiple times themselves, but I'm more focused on the strike zone in general. After the initial shock of the call, I could give two sh*ts about that specific pitch. However, nothing will change the umpire situation.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

sidney lanier — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:16:07 GMT

Daubs:

sidney lanier:

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

It was a strike, but the strike zone does change based on stance:

The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

If that's the case, I'm shocked we don't see more Rickey Henderson-type stances....or a batter who squats so his knees are above his shoulders (man, that'd be uncomfortable, though....)

That still doesn't change the fact that Fox was much more upright when DiFelice was starting to throw the pitch and hunched over more when the ball crossed the plate.

You're right. The zone is defined by the hitter's stance when he is prepared to hit, not when he goes into Eddie Gaedel mode trying to take ball four. Just more corroboration, not that any was needed, about what this pitch should have been called.

This business somebody else pointed out about Jake Fox going to the tape room and confirming his eagle eye at the plate just shows that he's absorbed the Cubs' our-schit-doesn't-smell-as-bad-as-Wrigley-Field attitude. The guy locks up and then tries to spin it that he's got Ted Williams' eyes.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I remember him taking a called third strike to end a Cubs' loss a few days ago. I thought it was against the Giants, but I checked, and it was in Atlanta on June 22nd. I remember watching the end of that game and texting a friend (a Giants fan, which is why I got confused) about the sad state of baseball when a guy can take a belt-high fastball that splits the plate with two outs in the ninth down two runs. So he freezes up again, and this time it works out for him, thanks to an accommodating umpire.

That's redemption, Chicago Cubs style.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

Daubs — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:32:00 GMT

sidney lanier:

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

It was a strike, but the strike zone does change based on stance:

The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

If that's the case, I'm shocked we don't see more Rickey Henderson-type stances....or a batter who squats so his knees are above his shoulders (man, that'd be uncomfortable, though....)

That still doesn't change the fact that Fox was much more upright when DiFelice was starting to throw the pitch and hunched over more when the ball crossed the plate.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

sidney lanier — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:22:39 GMT

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

It was a strike, but the strike zone does change based on stance:

The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

Einsteinhood — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:01:35 GMT

brewhawk:
It's not even like his overall numbers are good, either. They're mediocre at best. What *** good is 12 HR if the guy has 34 total RBI.

This guy is the anticlutch. A rally killer of the highest magnitude.

I don't know how some of you can still turn a blind eye to how badly this overpaid POS is hurting the team right now.

Wow, what a meaningless pile of blather.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

moreveggies_lessdoghnuts — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:56:20 GMT

alffan:

MLB needs to investigate the dirty umps. There are a handful and someone needs to launch an investigation.

Baseball is a man's game. On the other hand, the NBA is just a bunch of Michael Redd's, shoot shoot, miss miss, cha ching, cha ching.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

radio silence — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:31:59 GMT

stix:
Radio, I'm not going to go as far as Brewhawk, but it's hard to ignore that Cameron has really sucked the last month-plus.

0-5 today with 4 Ks, abysmal numbers with RISP.

I understand your points, but you can't blame Brewers fans for being a little agitated with him at the moment. Not only did he fail to get a bunt down, he popped up to first on a terrible pitch with the bases loaded and one out today.

He has been a pretty big rally-killer for well over a month now. I don't think he's a bad center fielder, but I can't say I'm a big Mike Cameron fan at the moment.

I'd expect Brewers fans to know what a slump is, and to deal with it.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

radio silence — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:30:18 GMT

brewhawk:
That F-cking As-hole is 6th in All-Star voting for outfielders right now. 6th! Unbelieveable how overrated that f-cking albatross is.

How is he an ***?

Or an albatross?

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

shipitdear — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:32:47 GMT

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

But it can confuse an umpire when a batter does that . Combine this w/ Kendall catching the ball above his own eyes and it makes it a tougher call. These things factor in as to why I think that pitch is going to be called a ball more often than folks on this board want to admit. I agree w/ Radio- if they have the technology to take the guessing out of the ball and strike calls they should use it. As long as you have human beings making the calls things that shouldn't factor in will. Of course for the millionth time it shouldn't have come down to the human element deciding a borderline pitch. The Brewers had the Cubs on the ropes over and over and couldn't knock them out.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

BenderTheOffender — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:31:14 GMT

brewhawk:
stix:

radio silence:

brewhawk:

I don't know how some of you can still turn a blind eye to how badly this overpaid POS is hurting the team right now.

The same way you turn a blind eye to his entire performance, and only cite one poor aspect of his performance.

Cameron's overall production is slightly above average, he's slightly above average for CF, and he's batting average or slightly above average in the 5th and 6th spot. He is also batting well above average with bases empty, and just around average with men on base. His defense is pretty decent, and he's a veteran leader.

It's fine if you don't like the way he plays the game, just say he's not your type of player. But you're lying if you're calling him either overrated or overpaid. What type of salary do you expect for a veteran centerfielder that plays good defense and hits average or better, while also featuring one of the best active power / speed combinations, and veteran leadership?

Again, it's fine if you don't like him, but don't suddenly act ignorant of how salaries work in MLB, and also don't suddenly act ignorant of Cam's career value and leadership. You're smarter than that.

Radio, I'm not going to go as far as Brewhawk, but it's hard to ignore that Cameron has really sucked the last month-plus.

0-5 today with 4 Ks, abysmal numbers with RISP.

I understand your points, but you can't blame Brewers fans for being a little agitated with him at the moment. Not only did he fail to get a bunt down, he popped up to first on a terrible pitch with the bases loaded and one out today.

He has been a pretty big rally-killer for well over a month now. I don't think he's a bad center fielder, but I can't say I'm a big Mike Cameron fan at the moment.

That F-cking As-hole is 6th in All-Star voting for outfielders right now. 6th! Unbelieveable how overrated that f-cking albatross is.

Why would you bring that up? There are Brewers grossly under performing and are in the All-star running (see Jason Kendall 4th, Bill Hall 5th, and JJ Hardy 3rd, who were/are close to the top of AS voting even Rickie Weeks is still 3rd). Never cite All star voting, since it is just a popularity contest, it has very little meaning positive nor negative.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

brewhawk — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:28:23 GMT

stix:

radio silence:

brewhawk:

I don't know how some of you can still turn a blind eye to how badly this overpaid POS is hurting the team right now.

The same way you turn a blind eye to his entire performance, and only cite one poor aspect of his performance.

Cameron's overall production is slightly above average, he's slightly above average for CF, and he's batting average or slightly above average in the 5th and 6th spot. He is also batting well above average with bases empty, and just around average with men on base. His defense is pretty decent, and he's a veteran leader.

It's fine if you don't like the way he plays the game, just say he's not your type of player. But you're lying if you're calling him either overrated or overpaid. What type of salary do you expect for a veteran centerfielder that plays good defense and hits average or better, while also featuring one of the best active power / speed combinations, and veteran leadership?

Again, it's fine if you don't like him, but don't suddenly act ignorant of how salaries work in MLB, and also don't suddenly act ignorant of Cam's career value and leadership. You're smarter than that.

Radio, I'm not going to go as far as Brewhawk, but it's hard to ignore that Cameron has really sucked the last month-plus.

0-5 today with 4 Ks, abysmal numbers with RISP.

I understand your points, but you can't blame Brewers fans for being a little agitated with him at the moment. Not only did he fail to get a bunt down, he popped up to first on a terrible pitch with the bases loaded and one out today.

He has been a pretty big rally-killer for well over a month now. I don't think he's a bad center fielder, but I can't say I'm a big Mike Cameron fan at the moment.

That F-cking As-hole is 6th in All-Star voting for outfielders right now. 6th! Unbelieveable how overrated that f-cking albatross is.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

stix — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:25:01 GMT

quicksdraw:

wow stix thats one short vacation from the board, lol what was it about 3 hrs.

Well, it's not as long as the 40-something-year vacation you've taken from Cubs boards, which is where any non-idiot Cubs fans would be.

Right, they don't exist.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

quicksdraw — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:23:21 GMT

wow stix thats one short vacation from the board, lol what was it about 3 hrs.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

stix — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:21:42 GMT

UWWhitewaterGrad:

The strikezone doesn't change when a batter bends over. That pitch was belt-high. That was a strike. Again, the interpretation of the zone is what is killing this aspect of the game.

Yeah, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the fact that Fox clearly bent over to make the zone shrink.

That was a joke of a call, and like I said earlier, I'm disgusted that Macha just turned his back and walked up the tunnel. As I've said before, baseball cannot be won on emotion and adrenaline, but for Crissakes, how can you just take it up the a** like that?

Not exactly the approach I want out of my manager. One thing I'll say about Ned is he would've blown his s*** over that call, and rightfully so.

Re: Crew @ Cubs Game 2 Gamethread: July 3

stix — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:19:34 GMT

radio silence:

brewhawk:

I don't know how some of you can still turn a blind eye to how badly this overpaid POS is hurting the team right now.

The same way you turn a blind eye to his entire performance, and only cite one poor aspect of his performance.

Cameron's overall production is slightly above average, he's slightly above average for CF, and he's batting average or slightly above average in the 5th and 6th spot. He is also batting well above average with bases empty, and just around average with men on base. His defense is pretty decent, and he's a veteran leader.

It's fine if you don't like the way he plays the game, just say he's not your type of player. But you're lying if you're calling him either overrated or overpaid. What type of salary do you expect for a veteran centerfielder that plays good defense and hits average or better, while also featuring one of the best active power / speed combinations, and veteran leadership?

Again, it's fine if you don't like him, but don't suddenly act ignorant of how salaries work in MLB, and also don't suddenly act ignorant of Cam's career value and leadership. You're smarter than that.

Radio, I'm not going to go as far as Brewhawk, but it's hard to ignore that Cameron has really sucked the last month-plus.

0-5 today with 4 Ks, abysmal numbers with RISP.

I understand your points, but you can't blame Brewers fans for being a little agitated with him at the moment. Not only did he fail to get a bunt down, he popped up to first on a terrible pitch with the bases loaded and one out today.

He has been a pretty big rally-killer for well over a month now. I don't think he's a bad center fielder, but I can't say I'm a big Mike Cameron fan at the moment.