82 Brew:

 I am glad those guys have found a way to help another team, but those guys stunk here.  Some guys turn it around with a new team, that is just the way it goes some times. 

Coaching?

brewhawk:

82 Brew:

 I am glad those guys have found a way to help another team, but those guys stunk here.  Some guys turn it around with a new team, that is just the way it goes some times. 

Coaching?

Could be, but MLB history is littered with guys that had a resurgence with other teams after being cast away from their original or previous team.

radio silence:

rockadocious2:

Why is it that Davis, Eveland, JDLR and others have had more success under different teams?  I understand these guys aren't world beaters, but I have not seen the Brewers be sufficiently competent in getting the most out of the pitchers that they have had here.  Especially starters, and especially their own guys on the farm.  Yes, we were successful with Kolb and Turnbow, but those didn't last.  We almost immediately wrecked Rogers arm, and save for Gallardo, have not developed any quality starters over quite a time now.

 I would in no way have Melvin's head for this, just pointing out some instances where he has made mistakes.  If most of those mistakes are of the pitching variety, then you have a trend.  The Brewers cannot be a successful organization without developing their own top quality pitchers.  Who knows, the problem may also lie with Maddux or the developmenal staff.  If it is, though, Melvin must recognize it and make a change.

I think you're raising two separate points here without distinguishing them.

(1) Comparing pitchers the Brewers have drafted (Rogers, Gallardo,. Eveland)

vs.

(2) Comparing pitchers the Brewers have not drafted (Davis, JDLR, Turnbow, Kolb)

Those are two different types of player development that require different analyses.

 

First, regarding Davis, the Brewers definitely got better usage out of him than the Dbacks have -- Davis' 2003-2005 as a whole cannot be compared to what Davis did for Arizona in 2007. 2006 was a thoroughly mediocre year for Davis, and although that level of production seems welcome in our rotation now, Melvin didn't really make a mistake by trading Davis after a mediocre year. That was what it was -- we needed a catcher, and although that move backfired, Melvin knew what it took to get a catcher.

I think it's fair to say that the Brewers got very good and important usage from Davis as a stopgap during the development years.

Second, regarding JDLR, how long were the Brewers supposed to work with him? He had one decent year out of two and a half seasons with the Crew, and he's not exactly a young pitcher -- he's now 27 years old. What do you think the likelihood is of someone of JDLR's caliber breaking out and pitching several consistently good seasons after 27?

 Third, Eveland is probably a legitimate beef in the development department, but then again, when he was called up the Brewers were in the midst of shifting around bullpen slots, and I distinctly remember Eveland being billed not as anything spectacular, but as a fine option for a bullpen stopgap. People forget that he pitched at a better level in the bullpen in 2005 before moving to the rotation in 2006. Perhaps that was the Brewers' mistake; but, I am hard-pressed to criticize Melvin now for a bullpen move he needed to make in 2005.

Now, Eveland is much younger than JDLR (24), and his development now indicates that perhaps he could have been a low rotation starter, but then again, who knows if that would have happened during his tenure in Milwaukee's organization. Again, even if Melvin's Estrada trade looks bad now, I'm a little hard pressed to fully criticize him because at the time we needed a catcher and if throwing in a young left-hander that struggled in the rotation (to that point) was necessary, well, so be it.

Fair enough.

The main point that I was trying to make is that as good as Melvin and Jack have been in finding, developing and trading for position players, they have been almost just as incompetent when it comes to pitchers. Not only have we not drafted and developed many good ones (save for Yo and Jeffress) we seem to be on the losing end of trades that involves pitchers. (Bush, Davis, etc.) 

There just seems to be many that think Melvin is a god (I think he's good) because of a few of the things that he has done.  However, now we have a bigger picture of all that he has done and it looks a lot more mediocre.  His drafts have been good, but that is primarily a byproduct of JackZ.  His trades have been all over the place from excellent (Sexson) to average (Lee) to ugly (Fatstrada). The Overbay deal doesn't look so great right now either because, again, he missed on the pitchers (what happened Zach Jackson?)

I just wonder if he has the eye/knack for pitching that he does for hitting.

rockadocious2:

Fair enough.

The main point that I was trying to make is that as good as Melvin and Jack have been in finding, developing and trading for position players, they have been almost just as incompetent when it comes to pitchers. Not only have we not drafted and developed many good ones (save for Yo and Jeffress) we seem to be on the losing end of trades that involves pitchers. (Bush, Davis, etc.) 

There just seems to be many that think Melvin is a god (I think he's good) because of a few of the things that he has done.  However, now we have a bigger picture of all that he has done and it looks a lot more mediocre.  His drafts have been good, but that is primarily a byproduct of JackZ.  His trades have been all over the place from excellent (Sexson) to average (Lee) to ugly (Fatstrada). The Overbay deal doesn't look so great right now either because, again, he missed on the pitchers (what happened Zach Jackson?)

I just wonder if he has the eye/knack for pitching that he does for hitting.

I pretty much agree with everything here.

Melvin is no god, but he indeed is a good GM.

Melvin's skills of unearthing somethng useful out of what appears to be a MLB turd have no use for the Brewers any more.  They only way to improve is to replace mediocre players with plus players in some spots.  In fact, I think it creates a problem in that they hang on to guys like Turnbow or Bill Hall too long, because they've been so happy just to have spots filled with Legit MLB'ers in the past.. 

Time to drop the Melvin/Yost combo, give the job to Jack Z. so they don't lose him, and hire him a good assistant who can work the professional end of things, and take the team to the next level.