I understand that the kid makes phenominal plays on defense, but I haven't seen him play yet.  What I have seen are this year's defensive AA numbers for him.  I keep hearing people say that Escobar needs to come up to the big leagues right now because of his "gold glove defense," but gold glove shortstops don't make 20 errors in a 125 game season.

I have no doubt that Escobar has gold glove potential, and I also haven't forgotten that he struggled by making errors on routine plays earlier in the season and likely improved as the season went on.

I'm not saying that Escobar isn't going to be a great defensive player for the Brewers, and judging by his INSANE Range Factor stat I don't doubt that he will be.  What I am saying is that maybe this guy could use a little more time down in AAA to improve both his plate discipline and his defensive concentration on routine plays. 

It would be a shame to waste a year of a stud player's service time teaching him plate discipline while watching him lead the majors in errors at SS.

Gold gloves are all about the offense.

Yes, it's ready.

That was an easy question.  I haven't read one scouting report or any opposing manager not rave about this kid's skills.  Yes, there will be a learning curve, but no transition is going to be perfect.

If Melvin and company give him the starting job, I believe he's ready.  If they don't, he must not be.  They know better than we do.

Ozzie Smith had 15+ errors 10 times in his career. 

Great range = more tough plays = more errors

Balls that JJ wouldn't get to, Escbar probably makes in his sleep.

Balls that JJ wouldn't even move for, Escobar probably makes errors on every once in awhile.

MrQuestions:

It would be a shame to waste a year of a stud player's service time teaching him plate discipline while watching him lead the majors in errors at SS.

His D is already good enough for the major leagues because of the range, but he will make mistakes and that probably isn't something that will endear him to fans right away...not to mention the "hacktastic" approach.

He is not yet 22 and he could use the time to work out the rough edges in his game.

 His glove is major league ready, but his bat is not even close..

Einsteinhood:

MrQuestions:

It would be a shame to waste a year of a stud player's service time teaching him plate discipline while watching him lead the majors in errors at SS.

Dude, you hit the nail dead on the head there.

His D is already good enough for the major leagues because of the range, but he will make mistakes and that probably isn't something that will endear him to fans right away...not to mention the "hacktastic" approach.

He is not yet 22 and he could use the time to work out the rough edges in his game.

I agree that he is not MLB-ready offensively, but fielding isn't one of those things that gets significantly tougher in the Majors than AA.  If he is getting rave reviews about his defense in AA, I doubt very seriously that his defense will get much worse at the Major League level unless he takes out his poor ABs on his defense.

ike1024:

Ozzie Smith had 15+ errors 10 times in his career. 

Great range = more tough plays = more errors

Balls that JJ wouldn't get to, Escbar probably makes in his sleep.

Balls that JJ wouldn't even move for, Escobar probably makes errors on every once in awhile.

Haha yeah, I realize he's going to make some insane plays that know one gets to... I know that every time he gets a ball that would otherwise be a hit he makes up for an error, and there will be many such plays...

I guess I'm really just wondering why the error number is so high.  Is he getting more errors because he makes impossible plays look possible?  Is he making lots of mistakes on easy plays?  Are the scorekeepers in that AA league more likely to charge an error on a tough play? 

Like I said before I haven't seen him play yet so I don't really know what he can do.  Rickie Weeks made 15 Errors in 120 games at 2B this year (and botched a bunch of DPs) and most fans would like to see him run out of town.  I'd hate to see the opposite of that happen with Escobar when fans watch him K all the time while carrying a high E number.  I guess that won't happen when he dazzles them with his Ozzie Smith-like defense :).

Edit:  "the opposite of that" meaning run out of town for playing "average" defense and being "bad" offensively... just to clarify.

I say we see how he does in Spring Training before we claim that he has a lot of bad at-bats.  I've read quotations from Don Money where he says that Alcides swings a lot because he is able to make so much contact.  The ball actually comes off his bat pretty hot, but he doesn't hit a lot of home runs.  Why?  Because he hits the ball on the ground about 57% of the time.  That's good, believe it or not, as that's how his speed is best used on the bases.  You neutralize his average for luck, ballpark, and find his MLE...it's .282 AVG with a .318 OBP.

Sure the plate discipline needs to improve, but he walked 10 more times in 2008 than he did in 2007 while striking out about the same amount.  Things are improving as he moves up in the system.  Perhaps they still will.

Einsteinhood:

His D is already good enough for the major leagues because of the range, but he will make mistakes and that probably isn't something that will endear him to fans right away...not to mention the "hacktastic" approach.

This is exactly what I mean... the fans are going to get on him if he makes some mistakes on routine plays, plus players who lack plate discipline seem to be quite unpopular with the natives right now.

Jim Breen:

Sure the plate discipline needs to improve, but he walked 10 more times in 2008 than he did in 2007 while striking out about the same amount.  Things are improving as he moves up in the system.  Perhaps they still will.

Which  is all the more reason why he should remain in the minors for another year.

crichar3:

Jim Breen:

Sure the plate discipline needs to improve, but he walked 10 more times in 2008 than he did in 2007 while striking out about the same amount.  Things are improving as he moves up in the system.  Perhaps they still will.

 

 

Which  is all the more reason why he should remain in the minors for another year.

ghostdog_on_the_beach:

crichar3:

Jim Breen:

Sure the plate discipline needs to improve, but he walked 10 more times in 2008 than he did in 2007 while striking out about the same amount.  Things are improving as he moves up in the system.  Perhaps they still will.

 

 

Which  is all the more reason why he should remain in the minors for another year.

I just do not understand what the rush is. I agree give him at least one year @ AAA. We have two young cheap middle infielders still under our control. What is the rush to get Escobar to Milwaukee. Let him play a season of AAA baseball. What is the downside of taking it slowly with him? Unless there is some killer trade out there for Weeks or Hardy I don't see the benefit of rushing his development.

No offense, but I really think we are losing sight of the point of the thread.  I think most of us know that his bat isn't ready yet, or at least not enough to justify moving anyone, but the question was "is [his] glove really MLB ready."  That is really where the debate should be, not whether he should be in the Majors right now.  I think many of us agree that he shouldn't.

ghostdog_on_the_beach:

 I know the Brewers have talked about moving Hardy to 3B to protect his shoulder, but like Einey and Radio have pointed out Hardy's impact as an offensive player decreases significantly when you move him off SS to 3B (which is why the Orioles resisted moving Cal Ripken Jr. until he was an defensive embarassment at SS).

This isn't true at all. Hardy's  impact offensively is the same at every position. It's the other players in the lineup that matter. If our lineup has Hardy,Escobar, Weeks, and Fielder in the infield, it doesn't matter one bit where Hardy plays. Moving Hardy isn't about Hardy's offense at SS, it's about our lack of production at 3rd, and to some extent 2nd, and whether adding Escobar would upgrade the team (by moving weeks or Hall/Counsell) to the bench. So the relevant discussion here is would the addition of Escobar at SS help the team more than Hall/Counsell at 3rd, assuming another 3rd base option isn't brought in? Whether Hardy plays SS or 3B, doesn't affect the offense at all, it whoever is playing opposite him that will determine the offensive effect.

As to the question about his glove, I'll trust the opinion of every scout who believes it is. His error total could be affected by range, or something as simple as AA baseball fields being in worse shape than ML fields (and thus having more bad hops).

matt stairs:

ghostdog_on_the_beach:

 I know the Brewers have talked about moving Hardy to 3B to protect his shoulder, but like Einey and Radio have pointed out Hardy's impact as an offensive player decreases significantly when you move him off SS to 3B (which is why the Orioles resisted moving Cal Ripken Jr. until he was an defensive embarassment at SS).

 

 

This isn't true at all. Hardy's  impact offensively is the same at every position. It's the other players in the lineup that matter. If our lineup has Hardy,Escobar, Weeks, and Fielder in the infield, it doesn't matter one bit where Hardy plays. Moving Hardy isn't about Hardy's offense at SS, it's about our lack of production at 3rd, and to some extent 2nd, and whether adding Escobar would upgrade the team (by moving weeks or Hall/Counsell) to the bench. So the relevant discussion here is would the addition of Escobar at SS help the team more than Hall/Counsell at 3rd, assuming another 3rd base option isn't brought in? Whether Hardy plays SS or 3B, doesn't affect the offense at all, it whoever is playing opposite him that will determine the offensive effect.

 

As to the question about his glove, I'll trust the opinion of every scout who believes it is. His error total could be affected by range, or something as simple as AA baseball fields being in worse shape than ML fields (and thus having more bad hops).

Great post.