A.  Lack of Talent.  TT has not done his job in getting the players here to be successful on defense

B.  Poor coaching.  MM continues to game plan poorly and does not have the defense prepared each week

C.  Bad scheme.  The aggressive man defense and relying heavily on the front 4 for pressure just doesn't work

D.  Players underachieving.  They are better than this and just need to perform to their capabilities

Let the discussion begin....

My 2 cents...I am not convinced it is either c or d although you can make a case for Hawk underachieving (worthless piece of buckeye crap).  Partly b but clearly there is a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.  KGB has past his usefulness and TT has not replaced him yet.  Drafted Harrell who was an injury risk and is not well injured.  But at the same time let his best interior DL go even though he was a bazillion dollars under the cap.  Our corners are aging fast and this was barely addressed in the offseason.  Meanwhile MM keeps saying "we'll get that cleaned up" yet week after week we are getting gashed on the ground. 

So either MM is doing all he can for the crap TT is handing him.  

OR

TT has given MM everything he needs to succeed but MM and his staff are not doing their jobs.

Hawk was playing well before he hurt himself.  That play where he broke up a TD against a WR was pretty nice to see.  Barnett playing uninspired ball is disturbing.  KGB is indeed past his usefulness.  Williams wasn't worth starter money but not having him in the rotation was a mistake by TT.  Losing Jenkins and having Harrell injured yet again isn't helping things along the D line.  Not having Bigby available has hurt our secondary.  Hopefully he'll return this week?  T. Williams seems to be holding his own while Harris heals.  But the lousy tackling all around is troubling.  Is it poor coaching or is it on the players?  It's probably a little bit of both.  :-(

Look as much as people want to complain and "drum up" reasons why this team is struggling this year it comes down to 2 THINGS; Injuries and Depth! Don't use the old adage that "injuries aren't an excuse" when in reality THEY ARE!! If you don't believe me just look at the Bears from this year versus last year... Players don't suddenly forget how to play and coaches don't forget how to coach. Lovie Smith is running the same defense that he ALWAYS has but he's got a full compliment of players this year. And the results are evident with the Bears this year. Bob Sanders (whom I've criticized on here) is NOT DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENT this year as opposed to last year. This team is injured and the loss of several players at certain spots are KILLING this team (D-Line and DB). If you want to blame TT then go ahead, but HE'S NOT THE PROBLEM. Any team that loses KEY starters WILL SUFFER as a result. You can blame TT for chosing to go with Harrel over Corey Williams, but Williams ISN'T DOING ANYTHING IN CLEVELAND!

This is just shaping up to be one of those years where the Packers are stuck with the injury bug and their play on the field will reflect that in the W's column on Monday morning. Injuries ARE a legit excuse for this team or any team for that matter... The coaching staff and GM shouldn't be crucified for the "breaks" that the season gives them.

The Packers are not tackling well and Sanders needs to blitz Collins.

Gap control, pad level, and getting the point of attack taken to you have been major culprits.

hbk21042000:

Look as much as people want to complain and "drum up" reasons why this team is struggling this year it comes down to 2 THINGS; Injuries and Depth! Don't use the old adage that "injuries aren't an excuse" when in reality THEY ARE!! If you don't believe me just look at the Bears from this year versus last year... Players don't suddenly forget how to play and coaches don't forget how to coach. Lovie Smith is running the same defense that he ALWAYS has but he's got a full compliment of players this year. And the results are evident with the Bears this year. Bob Sanders (whom I've criticized on here) is NOT DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENT this year as opposed to last year. This team is injured and the loss of several players at certain spots are KILLING this team (D-Line and DB). If you want to blame TT then go ahead, but HE'S NOT THE PROBLEM. Any team that loses KEY starters WILL SUFFER as a result. You can blame TT for chosing to go with Harrel over Corey Williams, but Williams ISN'T DOING ANYTHING IN CLEVELAND!

This is just shaping up to be one of those years where the Packers are stuck with the injury bug and their play on the field will reflect that in the W's column on Monday morning. Injuries ARE a legit excuse for this team or any team for that matter... The coaching staff and GM shouldn't be crucified for the "breaks" that the season gives them.

Could you be anymore of an apologist? Like TT you think you're spending your own money on this team. Time to man up an admit Management is not holding up their end!

CheeseCityFan:

Gap control, pad level, and getting the point of attack taken to you have been major culprits.

This is a direct quote from Oatmeal Mike McCarthy's presser.

Robert, say what you will, but all of those boil down to fundamentals of the game.  Screw up those, and you're screwed.   It's a matter of execution at the most basic level, and they're not doing it.  That stuff is fixable.

CheeseCityFan:

Robert, say what you will, but all of those boil down to fundamentals of the game.  Screw up those, and you're screwed.   It's a matter of execution at the most basic level, and they're not doing it.  That stuff is fixable.

I agree and MM has been saying he's going to fix these very problems at every Monday presser this season. Do you see it getting fixed on Sunday's yet?

CheeseCityFan:

Robert, say what you will, but all of those boil down to fundamentals of the game.  Screw up those, and you're screwed.   It's a matter of execution at the most basic level, and they're not doing it.  That stuff is fixable.

True.  but better more talented players do this on a more consistent basis and right now the players we have are not capable of doing this on a consistent basis.

The Bears have been a top 10 def when healthy and when injured dropped out of the top 10.  But when has a MM defense ever been ranked in the top 10.  Overall its been an average defense.  So even when healthy its clear there is a problem.  And the opener this yr...we were healthy...gashed by the vikes so the not healthy retort doesnt hold water here.

Again either TT is doing his job and MM is not.  Or MM is doing his job and TT is not.  There is not another option so choose!

The probelm on this forum is TT apologist are also attached at the hip with MM so they are unable to separate the 2.  but it is either one or the other.

robertj44:

CheeseCityFan:

Robert, say what you will, but all of those boil down to fundamentals of the game.  Screw up those, and you're screwed.   It's a matter of execution at the most basic level, and they're not doing it.  That stuff is fixable.

I agree and MM has been saying he's going to fix these very problems at every Monday presser this season. Do you see it getting fixed on Sunday's yet?

He'd better, or I'm gonna think it's Groundhog Day and Shermy's at the podium...

CheeseCityFan:

robertj44:

CheeseCityFan:

Robert, say what you will, but all of those boil down to fundamentals of the game.  Screw up those, and you're screwed.   It's a matter of execution at the most basic level, and they're not doing it.  That stuff is fixable.

I agree and MM has been saying he's going to fix these very problems at every Monday presser this season. Do you see it getting fixed on Sunday's yet?

He'd better, or I'm gonna think it's Groundhog Day and Shermy's at the podium...

Thanks for the chuckle before my meeting. We've got problems of our own to fix today;)

Sounds like people aren't being true to their assignments.  A sure sign of a suspect Defensive Coordinator is blown assignments and not taking care of your responsibilities first.  We're not a disciplined defense when it comes to assignments or execution and that falls on Bob Sanders.

So none of your 4 choices were correct.  Next time just ask me, and you won't have to waste ten minutes of your life spouting nonsense.

klbii:

A.  Lack of Talent.  TT has not done his job in getting the players here to be successful on defense

B.  Poor coaching.  MM continues to game plan poorly and does not have the defense prepared each week

C.  Bad scheme.  The aggressive man defense and relying heavily on the front 4 for pressure just doesn't work

D.  Players underachieving.  They are better than this and just need to perform to their capabilities

Let the discussion begin....

My 2 cents...I am not convinced it is either c or d although you can make a case for Hawk underachieving (worthless piece of buckeye crap).  Partly b but clearly there is a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.  KGB has past his usefulness and TT has not replaced him yet.  Drafted Harrell who was an injury risk and is not well injured.  But at the same time let his best interior DL go even though he was a bazillion dollars under the cap.  Our corners are aging fast and this was barely addressed in the offseason.  Meanwhile MM keeps saying "we'll get that cleaned up" yet week after week we are getting gashed on the ground. 

So either MM is doing all he can for the crap TT is handing him.  

OR

TT has given MM everything he needs to succeed but MM and his staff are not doing their jobs.

A.  He has brought in Pickett, Woodson & Hawk, he has brought in Bigby and Rouse both who are getting better.  He hasbrought inpplayers, but the only mistake he made was not in getting Taylor from Miami.  he was a ntural to lay the DE side that KGB is on.  Jenbkins would not have had to move from De to DT on passing downs which would have supported the run defense.  Otherwise he hasn't made a huge mistake, Harrell had not had the back problem yet and there was no reason to think he would hurt it.  Williams was traded for a #2, otherwise GB could have offered the 1 year tendor, but at the higher price f or a #1 pickl if taken.  All Gb would ahve doen is overpay Williams and then lost him in FA nextyear.

B & C.  As HC MM takes theblame for the overall team not paying well.  The penalties on offense are my biggest consern, but his DC needs to take more of the blame for teh defense.  Sanders calls the defensive schemes and makes the calkl for them on the field.  His wanting to get a pass rush withthe front four is nice, but when it doesn't happen he doesn't know what to do.  DBs missing assignments who have been in this defense for 2/3 years is the responsibility ofthe DB coach.  Now we get rid of Schottheimer & Sanders and see ifthe LB coach can get this defsne truned around.

D.  If players are under-achieving then bench them and put soembody else in.  That is part of the NFL and that is where you find the guys who want to play.  Barnett has been screwing up in the middle so it is now time for Bishop to take a shot.  We have had T. Williams step up and has played well, and without a pass rush the secondary held the Falcons to 69 yards passing in the second half, although it may have more to do with not being able to stop the run.

You jump on Hawk because he was a#5, he leads the team in tackles, and leads the Lbs in sacks and has done this with a chest injury and now a groin injury.  Maybe if hawk didn't havce to cover the middle due to barnetts poor play, Hawk would have more room to make plays.  KGB is a good speed rusher, but theyneed to send another guy from his side. Every gamethe Tackle pushes and follows KGB outside, send Collins, or Hawk with a delay through the Guard-Tackle gap and there could be some big sacks there.  makethge Tcakle stay inside more and then KGB can usethat speed to get around intsead of just being pushed up field. 

IMHO, the deefesnive coordiantor need to get the stuff stright or needs to be let go.  maybe firing him during the season isn't the geratest thing in the world, but maybe it would wake up some of the defensive coaches.  get rid of the DC and maybe they dump others if their portion of the defense is falling apart.

The O-line wasn't perfect on Sunday, but it was better.  GB ran the ball well, and the pass blocking wasn't as bad as everybody wants to believe.  This was just the second game where Spitz has played his natural position, and the second game back for Wells.  Colledge looked better at tackle than at Guard and maybe Barbre may take over that guard spot.  I see the offense getting better, but unless the defense starts stopping the run, it will be along season.

thepack:

Sounds like people aren't being true to their assignments.  A sure sign of a suspect Defensive Coordinator is blown assignments and not taking care of your responsibilities first.  We're not a disciplined defense when it comes to assignments or execution and that falls on Bob Sanders.

So none of your 4 choices were correct.  Next time just ask me, and you won't have to waste ten minutes of your life spouting nonsense.

This is the correct answer. It all falls on the DC. Sanders is a joke. This defense has been undisciplined for the last 3 years. They continue to miss assignments. This is a very poorly coached unit. This falls squarely on the DC's lap. Time for MM to go postal on Sanders and get him to fix the mess or get rid of him!