Bush to DL, Burns recalled

Daubs:

Bush to DL, Burns recalled

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 4:35 p.m.  

Right-hander Dave Bush has been put on the disabled list with a tired arm.

The Brewers are calling up right-hander Mike Burns to start Thursday and Saturday's turn is still TBD.

This move comes after Bush lasted only three innings in his last start in Detroit. He is 0-3 with a 10.38 ERA in his last four starts and said his right arm has been fatigued at least since his start in Florida when he was dinged near the elbow with a line drive.

It isn't clear if that shot has anything to do with Bush not being able to recover to 100% by the time of his next starts in the rotation, but what is clear is the Brewers could no longer give Bush the ball and let him get hit and lose games with the team in the midst of a division race with the Cardinals and Cubs and Reds.

After his last start in Detroit, Bush said it has been frustrating because the trainers haven't been able to figure out why the arm isn't recovering. So rest is the next step. The Brewers discussed pushing Bush back a couple days and maybe starting him Saturday, but the problem is serious enough and severe enough that Bush wouldn't be ready by then either.

So he'll be placed on the disabled list and it will likely be 2-3 weeks before he's back, and he probably won't start again until after the all-star break.

Bush will do some light throwing while on the DL so he doesn't lose much strength, but his activity will be monitored closely and he won't do too much since this does seem like an injury that is going to require as much rest as possible.

Burns threw four scoreless innings in his only appearance with the Brewers this season before he was sent back down to Class AAA Nashville. He has thrown well in Nashville going 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA.

Bush's spot in the rotation, which Burns will occupy, will likely make four starts before Bush is back, and Saturday's spot in the rotation will make three starts.

Seth McClung is a likely candidate to make the start, but manager Ken Macha wouldn't say for sure who will get the ball. He did say no one in the bullpen will have to be saved as of tonight, but that doesn't mean they won't start to save an arm starting tomorrow. If that's the case, then the ball probably will go to McClung.  

McCLung has been the key to the bullpens success this year dont mess with that, send narveson down and call up dillard or chris cody to take the 5th starter role starting saturday

Maybe his arm cant recover because it got hit by a 95mph shot up the middle. The arm needs time to recover from the unnatural motion of throwing 90mph, much less compound that with the trauma of being hit. He will come back strong.

or he should of kept the beard., or he should of ,wait i am running out of should of could off's :)

Bush has micro-tear

brewcrew143:

Daubs:

Bush to DL, Burns recalled

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 4:35 p.m.  

Right-hander Dave Bush has been put on the disabled list with a tired arm.

The Brewers are calling up right-hander Mike Burns to start Thursday and Saturday's turn is still TBD.

This move comes after Bush lasted only three innings in his last start in Detroit. He is 0-3 with a 10.38 ERA in his last four starts and said his right arm has been fatigued at least since his start in Florida when he was dinged near the elbow with a line drive.

It isn't clear if that shot has anything to do with Bush not being able to recover to 100% by the time of his next starts in the rotation, but what is clear is the Brewers could no longer give Bush the ball and let him get hit and lose games with the team in the midst of a division race with the Cardinals and Cubs and Reds.

After his last start in Detroit, Bush said it has been frustrating because the trainers haven't been able to figure out why the arm isn't recovering. So rest is the next step. The Brewers discussed pushing Bush back a couple days and maybe starting him Saturday, but the problem is serious enough and severe enough that Bush wouldn't be ready by then either.

So he'll be placed on the disabled list and it will likely be 2-3 weeks before he's back, and he probably won't start again until after the all-star break.

Bush will do some light throwing while on the DL so he doesn't lose much strength, but his activity will be monitored closely and he won't do too much since this does seem like an injury that is going to require as much rest as possible.

Burns threw four scoreless innings in his only appearance with the Brewers this season before he was sent back down to Class AAA Nashville. He has thrown well in Nashville going 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA.

Bush's spot in the rotation, which Burns will occupy, will likely make four starts before Bush is back, and Saturday's spot in the rotation will make three starts.

Seth McClung is a likely candidate to make the start, but manager Ken Macha wouldn't say for sure who will get the ball. He did say no one in the bullpen will have to be saved as of tonight, but that doesn't mean they won't start to save an arm starting tomorrow. If that's the case, then the ball probably will go to McClung.  

McCLung has been the key to the bullpens success this year dont mess with that, send narveson down and call up dillard or chris cody to take the 5th starter role starting saturday

A starting pitcher is more important than a reliever.

pdevine22:

brewcrew143:

Daubs:

Bush to DL, Burns recalled

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 4:35 p.m.  

Right-hander Dave Bush has been put on the disabled list with a tired arm.

The Brewers are calling up right-hander Mike Burns to start Thursday and Saturday's turn is still TBD.

This move comes after Bush lasted only three innings in his last start in Detroit. He is 0-3 with a 10.38 ERA in his last four starts and said his right arm has been fatigued at least since his start in Florida when he was dinged near the elbow with a line drive.

It isn't clear if that shot has anything to do with Bush not being able to recover to 100% by the time of his next starts in the rotation, but what is clear is the Brewers could no longer give Bush the ball and let him get hit and lose games with the team in the midst of a division race with the Cardinals and Cubs and Reds.

After his last start in Detroit, Bush said it has been frustrating because the trainers haven't been able to figure out why the arm isn't recovering. So rest is the next step. The Brewers discussed pushing Bush back a couple days and maybe starting him Saturday, but the problem is serious enough and severe enough that Bush wouldn't be ready by then either.

So he'll be placed on the disabled list and it will likely be 2-3 weeks before he's back, and he probably won't start again until after the all-star break.

Bush will do some light throwing while on the DL so he doesn't lose much strength, but his activity will be monitored closely and he won't do too much since this does seem like an injury that is going to require as much rest as possible.

Burns threw four scoreless innings in his only appearance with the Brewers this season before he was sent back down to Class AAA Nashville. He has thrown well in Nashville going 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA.

Bush's spot in the rotation, which Burns will occupy, will likely make four starts before Bush is back, and Saturday's spot in the rotation will make three starts.

Seth McClung is a likely candidate to make the start, but manager Ken Macha wouldn't say for sure who will get the ball. He did say no one in the bullpen will have to be saved as of tonight, but that doesn't mean they won't start to save an arm starting tomorrow. If that's the case, then the ball probably will go to McClung.  

McCLung has been the key to the bullpens success this year dont mess with that, send narveson down and call up dillard or chris cody to take the 5th starter role starting saturday

A starting pitcher is more important than a reliever.

It is much more complicated than that.  There is an effect on the entire bullpen.  Forst off, McClung is out of the bullpen and into the rotation.  So the pen gets weaker as the result of the dropoff between him and the replacement.  Second, McClung is not stretched out, so there will be a period where the rest of the pen gets more work and the lower levels will see more innings than normal as a result.

I would rather see them bring up a guy like Dillard who has been stretched out, or get Parra back up because he is the best chance at winning a major league game of the options within the organization right now.

Daubs:

Bush has micro-tear

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 6:19 p.m.  

It turns out Dave Bush's injury is a little more serious than a tired arm. He has a micro-tear in his right triceps as a result of the line drive he took off Hanley Ramirez's bat in that June 4 start against the Marlins.

Bush had a MRI yesterday and the small tear was revealed. He's still expected to miss 2-3 weeks, but that is why the recovery is expected to take so long. It's more than arm fatigue.

This is the first time Bush will miss a professional start and the first time he's been placed on the DL.

 

I seem to prefer this news rather than "arm fatigue", it's much more definable, and explains his starts much more. It also allows them to pinpoint when he should be effective again. Arm fatigue is too vague and sounds like it could linger.

pdevine22:

brewcrew143:

Daubs:

Bush to DL, Burns recalled

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 4:35 p.m.  

Right-hander Dave Bush has been put on the disabled list with a tired arm.

The Brewers are calling up right-hander Mike Burns to start Thursday and Saturday's turn is still TBD.

This move comes after Bush lasted only three innings in his last start in Detroit. He is 0-3 with a 10.38 ERA in his last four starts and said his right arm has been fatigued at least since his start in Florida when he was dinged near the elbow with a line drive.

It isn't clear if that shot has anything to do with Bush not being able to recover to 100% by the time of his next starts in the rotation, but what is clear is the Brewers could no longer give Bush the ball and let him get hit and lose games with the team in the midst of a division race with the Cardinals and Cubs and Reds.

After his last start in Detroit, Bush said it has been frustrating because the trainers haven't been able to figure out why the arm isn't recovering. So rest is the next step. The Brewers discussed pushing Bush back a couple days and maybe starting him Saturday, but the problem is serious enough and severe enough that Bush wouldn't be ready by then either.

So he'll be placed on the disabled list and it will likely be 2-3 weeks before he's back, and he probably won't start again until after the all-star break.

Bush will do some light throwing while on the DL so he doesn't lose much strength, but his activity will be monitored closely and he won't do too much since this does seem like an injury that is going to require as much rest as possible.

Burns threw four scoreless innings in his only appearance with the Brewers this season before he was sent back down to Class AAA Nashville. He has thrown well in Nashville going 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA.

Bush's spot in the rotation, which Burns will occupy, will likely make four starts before Bush is back, and Saturday's spot in the rotation will make three starts.

Seth McClung is a likely candidate to make the start, but manager Ken Macha wouldn't say for sure who will get the ball. He did say no one in the bullpen will have to be saved as of tonight, but that doesn't mean they won't start to save an arm starting tomorrow. If that's the case, then the ball probably will go to McClung.  

McCLung has been the key to the bullpens success this year dont mess with that, send narveson down and call up dillard or chris cody to take the 5th starter role starting saturday

A starting pitcher is more important than a reliever.

Absolutely Pdevine.

A starter is much more important than a reliever, because they pitch so many more innings.

But lets say that a reliever is performing a level where they will prevent 30 more runs than the average reliever, and if you move them the rotation you know you can get 50 runs better than average for the rest of the season. You have a guy in AAA rotation who you know can prevent 40 runs above average in the rotation the rest of the year, and you also have a reliever who you know can prevent 15 runs as a reliever.

So your choice is between

50 runs + 15 runs for a total of 65 runs if you move pitcher A to the rotation

or

40 runs + 30 runs for a total of 70 runs if you leave them in the pen and call up the other guy

 

Obviously this is an impossible hypothetical because it assumes perfect knowledge is possible. The point is that it all depends on what you have available to fill whatever hole needs to be filled. Just because Seth McClung would give you more value as a starter than a reliever (and he probably is capable of doing so) doesn't necessarily mean that is the best use for the resources on hand.

Of course, I actually do suspect that if Bush is out long term that McClung should probably be called on to take that (or Manny's) spot in the rotation, because I feel like there are more capable pen replacement options. I like the idea of moving Smith into Seth's role and calling up Dillard to replace Smith's spot more than I like calling on Dillard, Narveson, Burns of Cody to start long term in the rotation.

Though if Cody continues to dominate like he has, maybe they should just ride that out at the major league level. There is something about that guy, I just don't know how he keeps doing it but he does.

They have Starters in AAA performing reasonably well.  Give them a shot.  Burns earned his shot.  Chase Wright seems to have earned a spot with a 2.14 ERA in June and a sub 4.00 ERA overall.  Chris Cody seems to want a shot with only 3 starts but averaging 7 innings a start with a 1.69 ERA.  And that does not include Josh Butler who has been bumped all over the place this year or Manny Parra who seems to be figuring things out a bit.

I say throw some of these guys against the wall while Bush is out and see if anything sticks.  If these guys can't hack it then you are forced to go with McClung

BenderTheOffender:

Daubs:

Bush has micro-tear

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 6:19 p.m.  

It turns out Dave Bush's injury is a little more serious than a tired arm. He has a micro-tear in his right triceps as a result of the line drive he took off Hanley Ramirez's bat in that June 4 start against the Marlins.

Bush had a MRI yesterday and the small tear was revealed. He's still expected to miss 2-3 weeks, but that is why the recovery is expected to take so long. It's more than arm fatigue.

This is the first time Bush will miss a professional start and the first time he's been placed on the DL.

 

I seem to prefer this news rather than "arm fatigue", it's much more definable, and explains his starts much more. It also allows them to pinpoint when he should be effective again. Arm fatigue is too vague and sounds like it could linger.

Agreed.  A tear really sounds bad, but if they just labeled it 'arm fatigue' and couldn't find any structural damage I'd be real worried about Bush's future effectiveness.  In this case, it seems more likely that we'll see the good Bush again later this year once his tricep has healed.  It's also a tear in a rather strong arm muscle, as opposed to an elbow ligament or shoulder area, which I think is positive long-term news for Bush.

The_Igniter:

They have Starters in AAA performing reasonably well.  Give them a shot.  Burns earned his shot.  Chase Wright seems to have earned a spot with a 2.14 ERA in June and a sub 4.00 ERA overall.  Chris Cody seems to want a shot with only 3 starts but averaging 7 innings a start with a 1.69 ERA.  And that does not include Josh Butler who has been bumped all over the place this year or Manny Parra who seems to be figuring things out a bit.

I say throw some of these guys against the wall while Bush is out and see if anything sticks.  If these guys can't hack it then you are forced to go with McClung

So how many games/starts would you give to untested AAA starters before going back to McClung?

When it comes to starts, you have to go the safe route.  McClung is the safest choice for the rotation right now.  If they really want to see Burns or Wright or whoever, they shouldn't get anything more than low-leverage long relief appearances out of the pen, or emergency spot starts. 

Relief innings are just not nearly as important as starter innings.  I would be okay with giving a AAA pitcher a start if they needed a 5th arm with Parra still uncertain, but not when there's a better choice already in the pen.  With Bush out, they need to look to McClung first.

mikeyjay21:

So how many games/starts would you give to untested AAA starters before going back to McClung?

When it comes to starts, you have to go the safe route.  McClung is the safest choice for the rotation right now.

I would give every starter two starts a piece.  And why are AAA starters untested.  They have been doing the exact same thing as McClung only against lesser competition.  Actually I would say the AAA starters are in a better position to succeed and help the team because they are stretched out and used to throwing 5-7 innings where McClung probably hasn't thrown over three innings since last July.

This is not directed at you MikeyJay but just a question I am throwing out there,  Why does our management team treat the jump from AAA to the majors this year like it is a motorcycle jump across the the Grand Canyon?

Take off the training wheels and let these guys play.  It is still Baseball.  They are not learning a new language.  Yeah they might fail but the Brewers should let them go out there and fail or succeed on their own and not be set up to fail like it appears they are doing to Mat Gamel.  The hardest thing in the Majors to do is pinch hit.  So what do the Brewers do? Sit him on the bench most of the time for his first couple of weeks and have him pinch hit.  The guy has a .891 OPS as a 3B this season. Bill Hall's OPS since Gamel has been called up is sitting around .200.  Let the kid play.  OK that is my rant.

Anyway back on topic.  If the Brewers are going to succeed this season they need to trust their AAA talent.  That means pitching.  I think it is in the best interest of the Brewers this season and the organization as a whole to see what some of these guys can do. 

The_Igniter:

And why are AAA starters untested.  They have been doing the exact same thing as McClung only against lesser competition.

I'd say that's exactly why they're untested; they've been performing against lesser competition.

I've never heard the difference between AAA and the majors described as a motorcycle jump across the grand canyon before, but it's not like it's a similar difference between AA and AAA, either.  The majors is the cream of the crop, and very often guys with good AAA numbers cannot succeed in the majors because it is against much tougher competition.  It's why we label some guys "AAAA" players.

With this team, I don't think it's about not "trusting" their AAA talent.  They have guys there for organizational depth, but you'd prefer to not have to dip into it.  If you're talking about giving two starts each to three or four guys, you're starting to talk about a half dozen to a dozen games that you're handing over to players who've been considered a tier below major league caliber by folks who know more about them than you or me.  To me, it's not about whether or not a guy is having a good year in AAA.  You have to trust what your scouts and talent evaluators say and decide whether or not a guy is going to have a chance at giving you decent innings against major league hitters. 

Personally, I just believe it's a riskier bet for giving a major league start to the guys they have in Nashville over a quality guy that's already in the pen (McClung's workload swinging between the pen and rotation has never been a problem before in his career).  Spreading a few starts out among some AAA pitchers could very well be throwing those games away when there's an arguably more effective option already on the staff.

pdevine22:

brewcrew143:

Daubs:

Bush to DL, Burns recalled

By Anthony Witrado of the Journal Sentinel

Jun. 23, 2009 4:35 p.m.  

Right-hander Dave Bush has been put on the disabled list with a tired arm.

The Brewers are calling up right-hander Mike Burns to start Thursday and Saturday's turn is still TBD.

This move comes after Bush lasted only three innings in his last start in Detroit. He is 0-3 with a 10.38 ERA in his last four starts and said his right arm has been fatigued at least since his start in Florida when he was dinged near the elbow with a line drive.

It isn't clear if that shot has anything to do with Bush not being able to recover to 100% by the time of his next starts in the rotation, but what is clear is the Brewers could no longer give Bush the ball and let him get hit and lose games with the team in the midst of a division race with the Cardinals and Cubs and Reds.

After his last start in Detroit, Bush said it has been frustrating because the trainers haven't been able to figure out why the arm isn't recovering. So rest is the next step. The Brewers discussed pushing Bush back a couple days and maybe starting him Saturday, but the problem is serious enough and severe enough that Bush wouldn't be ready by then either.

So he'll be placed on the disabled list and it will likely be 2-3 weeks before he's back, and he probably won't start again until after the all-star break.

Bush will do some light throwing while on the DL so he doesn't lose much strength, but his activity will be monitored closely and he won't do too much since this does seem like an injury that is going to require as much rest as possible.

Burns threw four scoreless innings in his only appearance with the Brewers this season before he was sent back down to Class AAA Nashville. He has thrown well in Nashville going 7-2 with a 2.55 ERA.

Bush's spot in the rotation, which Burns will occupy, will likely make four starts before Bush is back, and Saturday's spot in the rotation will make three starts.

Seth McClung is a likely candidate to make the start, but manager Ken Macha wouldn't say for sure who will get the ball. He did say no one in the bullpen will have to be saved as of tonight, but that doesn't mean they won't start to save an arm starting tomorrow. If that's the case, then the ball probably will go to McClung.  

McCLung has been the key to the bullpens success this year dont mess with that, send narveson down and call up dillard or chris cody to take the 5th starter role starting saturday

A starting pitcher is more important than a reliever.

True, but McClung isnt stretched out whatsoever, the last thing the brewers can afford right now is to have Seth only going 4-5 innings for a few games