matt stairs:

WiscoKing13:

well the one I saw had us at 62, factor in bowen's buy out (2 mil) and add jennings 2 mil, back to 62.  Add 500 k for Meeks 62.5

The cap number will be somewhere around 71.5, so thats 9 mil to bluff on CV for a little bit.

All i'm saying is why not just offer him the qo and see what happens, if everyone's interested.  Than it will be easy enough for us to turn it down.

I mean what else is JH going to do all summer?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't see a downside to making the QO and seeing what happens. Worst case scenario, he receives some sort of offer and he leaves. Best case, he doesn't get a real offer and maybe signs the QO, hoping to land a longer term deal next year when many teams will have cap space (and few will get to use it on their first choice).

 

My main contention was the sign and trade idea. It just never seems to work. Looking at it realistically, not making the QO or making the QO, there's a 95% chance the outcome is the same, CV gone with no compesation. 

 

Now if they let Sessions go after not making the QO to Villanueva, then I'll declare war on the front office, because that would be catstrophically moronic.

WiscoKing13:

matt stairs:

WiscoKing13:

matt stairs:

WiscoKing13:

matt stairs:

quicksdraw:

well of course what do think a sign a trade is?  we sign cv to what he wants or thinks is fair then trade him to the teams that has agreeed to that contract, then we get something in return, its not that complicated.

 

Why would a team give something for Charlie Villanueva when it was pretty obvious the Bucks didn't have the cash to pay him the MLE? Even as a restricted FA any team offering the MLE or close to it would know the Bucks wouldn't match. What do you really think CV would get in a sign and trade?

or the team would be looking to pay less so they sign him to a smaller deal and give up some type of small asset. 

Like say CLE, a 1st and Hickson

Their front court would be loaded and could easily spare hickson's salary and won't need the first next year since they are going to go crazy in the FA market

 

Another problem with a sign and trade, a player in the sign and trade become a BYC player. CV's salary number in BYC would be 50% of his new salary, or his old salary, whichever is greater. That means his salary is at least 3.4 million, so the Cavs can't just trade Hickson, they have to include another player or 2. That makes things a lot harder to deal with, as they don't have any 2 million salaries (roughly) from what I found.

 

So a "simple" sign and trade with cleveland is becoming awfully complicated.

see thats the last thing I gotta learn is the fucking byc

I would just take the first than and walk away

 

Can't do it, Cleveland is over the cap, they have to give back some salary to match up. The only salaries they have that match up (roughly) are Daniel Gibson and Delonte West. I think Gibson works on his own, West might be a touch high. Gibson's contract is pretty sucky though, and I can't see the cavs giving up West.

I believe they have trade exemptions, that works if they're not trading a player

The info I read didn't mention that, but it's possible. I'm remembering the Rashard Lewis deal, but I think Orlando was under the cap when they did that sign and trade. The only reason for the sign and trade was to add a year to Lewis's contract (how dumb was that, Orlando gave up a 2nd rounder for the right to overpay Lewis more). Otherwise I am almost sure salaries have to match up if the teams are over the cap.

Now if the cavs were under the cap and the Bucks were over, they could make the deal, that I am sure of.

EDIT: It might be possible depending on Cleveland's previous trade exceptions. I'd have to look at their trades over the last year, but I think they normally took on salary, so they probably don't have any exceptions to use, and if they do, a 3.4 million dollar one is hard to come by.

Link to info on trades and exceptions. The trade rules are around #70

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q67

quicksdraw:

matt stairs:

WiscoKing13:

well the one I saw had us at 62, factor in bowen's buy out (2 mil) and add jennings 2 mil, back to 62.  Add 500 k for Meeks 62.5

The cap number will be somewhere around 71.5, so thats 9 mil to bluff on CV for a little bit.

All i'm saying is why not just offer him the qo and see what happens, if everyone's interested.  Than it will be easy enough for us to turn it down.

I mean what else is JH going to do all summer?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't see a downside to making the QO and seeing what happens. Worst case scenario, he receives some sort of offer and he leaves. Best case, he doesn't get a real offer and maybe signs the QO, hoping to land a longer term deal next year when many teams will have cap space (and few will get to use it on their first choice).

 

My main contention was the sign and trade idea. It just never seems to work. Looking at it realistically, not making the QO or making the QO, there's a 95% chance the outcome is the same, CV gone with no compesation. 

 

Now if they let Sessions go after not making the QO to Villanueva, then I'll declare war on the front office, because that would be catstrophically moronic.

 

the scarey thing is if some team over values sessions that just might happen.

 

Some team would have to REALLY over-value Sessions now, I'm guessing the Bucks match at least to the MLE. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but I bet that's the plan.

quicksdraw:

almost forgot.....troll

I am going to jim or dan

stay off my posts and I will do the same

It has nothing to do with threads, as long as we don't commented on each others previous post

I have the same deal with tank and it works out, hopefully you can do the same

Do not comment on this post, or I will go to jim or dan

WiscoKing13:

quicksdraw:

almost forgot.....troll

I am giving you the same deal I gave tank. if you don't stay off my posts

I am going to jim or dan

stay off my posts and I will do the same

It has nothing to do with threads, as long as we don't commented on each others previous post

I have the same deal with tank and it works out, hopefully you can do the same

Do not comment on this post, or I will go to jim or dan

shut up crybaby, you cant run to mommy your whole life. just cause you are a rich kid, you will have to stand on your own 2 feet eventually.

i would be happy to talk with jim or dan and point out all the bait you have thrown out, to your misquotes to your our right plagerisms.  go run to the mods.  as a bucks troll you wont get far.  just as i didnt get far on the brewers board.

lol...the sky is falling!!!!  CV is no longer a Buck!!!

 Who cares?  He sucks.  Cleveland is going to give him 5 or 6 mil a year for 4 years and he will be their Charlie Bell.  He averaged 16 points a game this year ONLY because Redd and Bogut were injured, when he is the 4th option he dissapears. 

 A good comparable in talent/effort level is Tim Thomas...CV only wishes this were 2002 as he would be all lined up for a 7 year 75 million deal, probably from us.  Thank God, though, that GMs are now finally beginning to see that these marginal mid-level talents are almost always not worth mid-level money, you can get the same production from a low level player who is hungry to stick in the league.  Knowing what you know now about TT, would you give him even a mid level deal?  I would not. 

 Big money needs to go only to complete players who are in need positions.  Post players are of a premium...wings are a dime a dozen, and that is essentailly what CV is, a 6-11 wing.  Cleveland will be making a big mistake replacing Varejo with CV, on paper it looks good until somebody actually has to play defense.  Not to mention that CV is still going to be at least 4th or 5th in pecking order for shots on that team behind LBJ, Shaq, Mo,  and maybe Big Z.  Believe me this is win win for us. With or without CV, we are going to be back in the lottery next year. 

quicksdraw:

i would be happy to talk with jim or dan and point out all the bait you have thrown out, to your misquotes to your our right plagerisms.  go run to the mods.  as a bucks troll you wont get far.  just as i didnt get far on the brewers board.

quicksdraw:

WiscoKing13:

quicksdraw:

almost forgot.....troll

I am giving you the same deal I gave tank. if you don't stay off my posts

I am going to jim or dan

stay off my posts and I will do the same

It has nothing to do with threads, as long as we don't commented on each others previous post

I have the same deal with tank and it works out, hopefully you can do the same

Do not comment on this post, or I will go to jim or dan

shut up crybaby, you cant run to mommy your whole life. just cause you are a rich kid, you will have to stand on your own 2 feet eventually.

i got a lot of info on you, i know you are a spoiled rich kid.  and apparently one that cannot fight his own battles(go figure)  do you really think any action will be taken?  all i am doing is defending the bucks and other posters who you shoot down  ALL the time.   look at the packer board, yes jim has at times remmoved some of the uglier posts and comments, but its still as cutthroat as you can get.   this stuff between me and you is mild in comparison.  but hey i enjoy talking to jim so knock yourself out mammas boy.

tompeters:

lol...the sky is falling!!!!  CV is no longer a Buck!!!

 Who cares?  He sucks.  Cleveland is going to give him 5 or 6 mil a year for 4 years and he will be their Charlie Bell.  He averaged 16 points a game this year ONLY because Redd and Bogut were injured, when he is the 4th option he dissapears. 

 A good comparable in talent/effort level is Tim Thomas...CV only wishes this were 2002 as he would be all lined up for a 7 year 75 million deal, probably from us.  Thank God, though, that GMs are now finally beginning to see that these marginal mid-level talents are almost always not worth mid-level money, you can get the same production from a low level player who is hungry to stick in the league.  Knowing what you know now about TT, would you give him even a mid level deal?  I would not. 

 Big money needs to go only to complete players who are in need positions.  Post players are of a premium...wings are a dime a dozen, and that is essentailly what CV is, a 6-11 wing.  Cleveland will be making a big mistake replacing Varejo with CV, on paper it looks good until somebody actually has to play defense.  Not to mention that CV is still going to be at least 4th or 5th in pecking order for shots on that team behind LBJ, Shaq, Mo,  and maybe Big Z.  Believe me this is win win for us. With or without CV, we are going to be back in the lottery next year. 

cv on the right team has value, he can score for sure and rebound on nights he wants to rebound, i like CV and wish him the best, i can see that he was not a skiles type player, lets hope we get a PF who is and that can play .....sorry malik allen.

quicksdraw:

i would be happy to talk with jim or dan and point out all the bait you have thrown out, to your misquotes to your our right plagerisms.  go run to the mods.  as a bucks troll you wont get far.  just as i didnt get far on the brewers board.

Are you guys seriously threatening to report each other to the mods?  Who the fu*k cares even if you do whine like a porked bi*ch, and go tell.  The mods will kick you out, and you can sign up with a new name.  The only downside (if you can call it that) is that you lose your name and your posts. 

Don;t tell me that either of you are the type of loser who cares about that!!!!!!  I can't believe that some people can't take even a little message board ribbing.  It is almost as if Homer Simpson walks in with a machete and a  lit cigar, chops each of your di*ks off, cauterizes the wounds, then runs slits under your nutsacks to give you each a new va jj.  Even at that you are more concerned with telling jim and pam  about your hurt feelings than reporting the person who just gave you an unsanitized, surprise sex change. 

quicksdraw:

i got a lot of info on you, i know you are a spoiled rich kid.  and apparently one that cannot fight his own battles(go figure)  do you really think any action will be taken?  all i am doing is defending the bucks and other posters who you shoot down  ALL the time.   look at the packer board, yes jim has at times remmoved some of the uglier posts and comments, but its still as cutthroat as you can get.   this stuff between me and you is mild in comparison.  but hey i enjoy talking to jim so knock yourself out mammas boy.

Yep again so spoiled I work at 4 AM in the morning, god I wish I had everything handed to me.

All I ask is you stay off my posts, I even told you before to cut the sh!t out and i'd be willing to talk sports with you but it didn't happen.

I'm just sick and tired of the same dumber personal attacks, I don't think you should be banned out anything.  Just don't comment on my posts because nothing comes from them

WiscoKing13:

quicksdraw:

i got a lot of info on you, i know you are a spoiled rich kid.  and apparently one that cannot fight his own battles(go figure)  do you really think any action will be taken?  all i am doing is defending the bucks and other posters who you shoot down  ALL the time.   look at the packer board, yes jim has at times remmoved some of the uglier posts and comments, but its still as cutthroat as you can get.   this stuff between me and you is mild in comparison.  but hey i enjoy talking to jim so knock yourself out mammas boy.

so that makes it okay because the packer board?? the packer board is a joke where you can barely talk sports, after maybe the first page it turns into personal arguments, theirs no point to it.

Yep again so spoiled I work at 4 AM in the morning, god I wish I had everything handed to me.

All I ask is you stay off my posts, I even told you before to cut the sh!t out and i'd be willing to talk sports with you but it didn't happen.

I'm just sick and tired of the same dumber personal attacks, I don't think you should be banned out anything.  Just don't comment on my posts because nothing comes from them

you start acting like a person and so will i far enough?  i am sorry you have to work but most of us do.

tompeters:

quicksdraw:

i would be happy to talk with jim or dan and point out all the bait you have thrown out, to your misquotes to your our right plagerisms.  go run to the mods.  as a bucks troll you wont get far.  just as i didnt get far on the brewers board.

Are you guys seriously threatening to report each other to the mods?  Who the fu*k cares even if you do whine like a porked bi*ch, and go tell.  The mods will kick you out, and you can sign up with a new name.  The only downside (if you can call it that) is that you lose your name and your posts. 

Don;t tell me that either of you are the type of loser who cares about that!!!!!!  I can't believe that some people can't take even a little message board ribbing.  It is almost as if Homer Simpson walks in with a machete and a  lit cigar, chops each of your di*ks off, cauterizes the wounds, then runs slits under your nutsacks to give you each a new va jj.  Even at that you are more concerned with telling jim and pam  about your hurt feelings than reporting the person who just gave you an unsanitized, surprise sex change. 

i would never turn anyone into the mods, i am a handle it face to face kinda guy. i fight my own battles, but i will not be intimatdated by threats.