Fox AB:

 

Hart AB:

crichar3:

I found this to be interesting commentary on the issue being debated in this thread.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/3/937376/why-it-matters-umpires-computers

Don't you think at some point during this season, the Brewers have been the recipient of calls in their favor that may also have significantly increased their chances of winning?  Maybe not to the extent this pitch did, but somewhat at least?  Do you really want to get rid of the umps?  Other sports that use video replay more extensively than MLB don't have a perfect system either.  Look at the NFL.  They blew that call when Majkowski went over the line of scrimmage to beat the Bears many moons ago in a late game situation (late in the 4th quarter, little time left in the game) and I bet every Packer fan thought that was the right call.  There is no panacea of officiating due to among other things, angles, blurs on the screen from a moving ball, and aspects of the game that people don't want to see changed or can't be changed due to logistics (like not being able to review penalty calls in the NFL).  There is no perfect system and ask Wisblue, the Brewers would argue if even there were due to their perspective.

I see pitch 5 from the Hart AB crosses the strike zone at some point.  Was that before or after it crossed the plate and how do you know?

crichar3:

I found this to be interesting commentary on the issue being debated in this thread.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/3/937376/why-it-matters-umpires-computers

 

 

+1 Nice Find, Crichar!

MateoInMex:

Your plan of waking up on the 4th of July and deciding to be exceptionally obnoxious is working well.

I have to admit, that is what I am doing.  I will stop now.  Sorry about that folks.  Wisblue, have a good 4th and enjoy the game today. 

Juiceman:

Speaking of commenting ont the thread, I notice now that as usual, you guys turn to name calling when you don't have a point.  Let me guess your age, Wisblue...under twenty-five.

But I also noticed no one commented on my Game Day analysis.  Don't tell me it was so persuasive it left you all speechless?

The article Crichar posted explains how accurate Game Day is.....

Juiceman:

wisblue:

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, on my age, and anyone who is a regular on this board knows it.

I guessed your age based on the way you respsond to debate.  Name calling is usually left for the immature and uneducated.

Trolling is evidence of maturity and sophistication?

There is not one word posted by Brewer fans on this thread that wouldn't have been done by Cubs fans if the situ was reversed. You came on here to stir things up and that makes you a troll, and gives people the right to call you out.

Juiceman:

I see pitch 5 from the Hart AB crosses the strike zone at some point.  Was that before or after it crossed the plate and how do you know?

Oh good god....you can't be serious......

Daubs:

Juiceman:

I see pitch 5 from the Hart AB crosses the strike zone at some point.  Was that before or after it crossed the plate and how do you know?

Oh good god....you can't be serious......

I guess he cannot comprehend the angle from which the pitches are calculated. In other words bassackwards.

Juiceman:

Do you really want to get rid of the umps? 

No, but game changing calls like this deserve to be scrutinized in order to protect the integrity of the game.

Juiceman:

sports that use video replay more extensively than MLB don't have a perfect system either.  Look at the NFL.  They blew that call when Majkowski went over the line of scrimmage to beat the Bears many moons ago in a late game situation

As technology advances, so do advancements in the game. Technology has progressed significantly in the last 18 years which would allow organizations, umpires and managers more concrete evidence to challenge calls.

Juiceman:

There is no panacea of officiating due to among other things, angles, blurs on the screen from a moving ball, and aspects of the game that people don't want to see changed

Having more opportunities to make the correct call keeps integrity in tact, unless "those people" want to keep the aspect of the game where teams (Bears v. Packers against Majkowski, yesterday's Brewer/Cubs game) get screwed. There is too much information available that can help umps make the right call.  It's definately something that should be looked into. 

robertj44:

Daubs:

Juiceman:

I see pitch 5 from the Hart AB crosses the strike zone at some point.  Was that before or after it crossed the plate and how do you know?

Oh good god....you can't be serious......

I guess he cannot comprehend the angle from which the pitches are calculated. In other words bassackwards.

He can't comprehend "perspective", either....the "window" view of Gameday makes it look like the ball was released in the zone and "tailed" at the end - when in reality, the ball was NEVER in the zone.

MateoInMex:

crichar3:

I found this to be interesting commentary on the issue being debated in this thread.

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/3/937376/why-it-matters-umpires-computers

 

 

+1 Nice Find, Crichar!

+1 Good, rational discussion. I like the approach of converting the effect of the call to $$$. Excellent perspective.

One thing I'd like to add to this thread is something I pointed out in the game thread. Jake Fox took a called third strike with two out in the ninth in a Cubs 2-0 loss in Atlanta on June 22nd. I mentioned to a friend then that he appeared to lock up on a pitch that split the plate belt high, and I went on to point out, as is my custom, how players of today are not as good as in the good old days, and nobody in the Bigs should ever leave the bat on his shoulder in that situation.

Now Fox locks up again in a game situation, takes what every objective observer except the guy holding the ball-strike indicator would call a strike, watches the tape, and confirms that he really does have Ted Williams' eyesight because that pitch was up and in.

What a knob. What a Cub.

Daubs:

shipitdear:

Daubs:

ghostdog_on_the_beach:

To get this worked up about a ball and strike call is silly.

The only reason there's the bitching and the debating is because the call effectively ended the game.

Yes, the Brewers blew chances earlier in the game, but for a blown call to directly end a game?  That's why people are upset.

In any event it's not the absolute travesty people are making it out to be .  The call in the game against Houston (I think it was the Stros) where the replay clearly showed the guy hit it 2 feet foul and they called it fair and it led to runs scoring was a "blown call".  This was a borderline pitch that allowed for interpretation.  That pitch - at the higher end of the zone - is called a ball a lot of the time at every level in which I've seen baseball played.

The Brewers had chances before and afterward in the Houston game.  In other words, that blown call didn't end the game.

It was actually against Arizona.  Score was tied 2-2 in Top of 8, 2 outs.  Tony Clark hits a ball down the left field line that was clearly foul, which replay confirmed as such.  But they call it fair and two runs score on the play, then the next hitter knocks in another run.  Brewers could have easily escaped the inning tied 2-2.  Instead they're down 5-2 w/ 6 outs to work with.   They went out in order in the 8th.  And although Counsell led off the 9th w/ a hit he was quickly wiped out by a DP, he was their only baserunner the rest of the way.  This was an undebateable blown call that went a long way to wiping out any chance the Brewers had to win that game. 

Daubs:

Yesterday - the blown call ended the game...  I have to disagree, though - that pitch is called a strike more often than not.

I do understand the finality of the call and I get that's why it has Brewer fans jumping up and down.  But as long as humans are calling balls and strikes -a lot more things come into play other than what the gameday technology says.  When you factor everything in - Wrigley, DeFelice without consistent command, batter having fouled off 4 pitches, Fox in a crouched position, Kendall catching the ball above his own eyes, the ball (even on gameday) coming in at the very top of the zone - it was a borderline call and in spite of what Brewer fans are saying - if he rings him up on that pitch the Cubs and their fans are going to go crazy.  Borderline.

Juiceman:

wisblue:

I thought you had already proven yourself to be a complete idiot, but you even topped yourself with this incomprehensible drivel.

Brewers fans are going to look at things from the Brewers perspective right?  You said so yourself.  So if that is your only criteria for gauging the accuracy of an umpire's call, then every umpire's call that goes against the Brewers is going to be seen as incorrect.  Isn't that what you are really saying?  Because the one pitch that seems to really get your goat this time around happened to go against the Brewers.  But you never did reply to the fact DeFelice had nine other pitches to get Fox out, including several 3 and 2 pitches, and didn't.  Now come  back and tell me how dumb and I am and then reply to my question.

I didn't feel obligated to respond to every one of your idiotic points, but here goes:

 

1. "your only criteria for gauging the accuracy of an umpire's call, then every umpire's call that goes against the Brewers is going to be seen as incorrect.  Isn't that what you are really saying? "

Dead wrong and illogical. What I am saying is that Brewer fans are going to react negatively to questionable or clearly incorrect calls that go against their team, especially when they end the game

2. But you never did reply to the fact DeFelice had nine other pitches to get Fox out, including several 3 and 2 pitches,

What does that have to do with anything?  Nobody ever said that the Brewers didn't have many other chances to win the game. You don't seem to be able to separate the debate about the rest of the game to the simple, independent question of whether or not the last pitch of the game should have been called a strike.

3. Now come  back and tell me how dumb and I am and then reply to my question.

OK, you asked. You are really dumb if you think that any of the points you have made here are anything other than obnoxious trolling. You are also really dumb if you don't understand that ALL FANS, including fans of your beloved Cubs, are going to debate and complain about things that go against their team, and that they aren't going to be completely neutral and objective about it. You are also really dumb if you think YOU are being objective, and if anyone wants you posting on this forum if your behavior the last day is any indication.

Is that good enough for you?

Juiceman:

wisblue:

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, on my age, and anyone who is a regular on this board knows it.

I guessed your age based on the way you respsond to debate.  Name calling is usually left for the immature and uneducated.

I hope for your sake that you are under 10, because usually people get over the "Ha,ha your team lost" phase at least by then. If you followed this board at all you would know that I don't resort to name calling as a normal response to debate. But, when dealing with certain people (such as trolls) it seems to be the only way to make a point.