This is insane.  Trade away easily your best run producer now when you can keep him for the rest of this season and 2010?  Trading him after 2010 makes much more sense to me.  I am sure some teams would come up with a good package now but at this point they do not need to deal him and they need to keep him ina lineup that is terribly inconsistent.

I love people's emotions.

When a guy is doing below average to bad. 

Trade the guy he is worthless.

When a guy is doing good.

We can't trade him he is indispensible.

Nobody ever said trade Prince right now or trade Prince for a bag of peanuts.   I was pretty much the only person on the other side of this and the idea is see what he is worth and see if anybody wants to offer a godfather package for him.  Not he has to be traded.  Not put him on the market and see what the best offer is and take it no matter what.  It was offer a fair extension for a decent amount of years (between 15-20 million for 2-3 years past arbitration) and when he rejects it the Brewers see what the Market Value is for him.  If the Giants, Red Sox, Rangers, or Braves want to empty their farm system for him the Brewers should definitely think about it. 

The Guys trade Value will never be higher than after an MVP type season with 2 years left on the contract.  I was the guy last year saying you definitely don't trade Prince right now because his Value is so low and telling people that Prince was easily the best hitter on the team which people usually laughed and said No Ryan Braun was easily the best.  To be a successful small market franchise the best way to win is to maximize assets. 

Like I said earlier in the thread If the Giants offered Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, and Tim Alderson plus another low level prospect with High upside the Brewers would have to take it.  

 

The_Igniter:

I love people's emotions.

When a guy is doing below average to bad. 

Trade the guy he is worthless.

When a guy is doing good.

We can't trade him he is indispensible.

Nobody ever said trade Prince right now or trade Prince for a bag of peanuts.   I was pretty much the only person on the other side of this and the idea is see what he is worth and see if anybody wants to offer a godfather package for him.  Not he has to be traded.  Not put him on the market and see what the best offer is and take it no matter what.  It was offer a fair extension for a decent amount of years (between 15-20 million for 2-3 years past arbitration) and when he rejects it the Brewers see what the Market Value is for him.  If the Giants, Red Sox, Rangers, or Braves want to empty their farm system for him the Brewers should definitely think about it. 

The Guys trade Value will never be higher than after an MVP type season with 2 years left on the contract.  I was the guy last year saying you definitely don't trade Prince right now because his Value is so low and telling people that Prince was easily the best hitter on the team which people usually laughed and said No Ryan Braun was easily the best.  To be a successful small market franchise the best way to win is to maximize assets. 

Like I said earlier in the thread If the Giants offered Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, and Tim Alderson plus another low level prospect with High upside the Brewers would have to take it.  

 

Here is a question.  Why would anyone have to offer that kind of deal.  I mean seriously.  If the collective thought across baseball is that there is no way the Brewers keep Prince past 2011, then why not wait it out until FA?  Why empty the cupboard to get a guy who is probably going to go to FA regardless?  Just playing devil's advocate here.

The_Igniter:

I love people's emotions.

When a guy is doing below average to bad. 

Trade the guy he is worthless.

When a guy is doing good.

We can't trade him he is indispensible.

Nobody ever said trade Prince right now or trade Prince for a bag of peanuts.   I was pretty much the only person on the other side of this and the idea is see what he is worth and see if anybody wants to offer a godfather package for him.  Not he has to be traded.  Not put him on the market and see what the best offer is and take it no matter what.  It was offer a fair extension for a decent amount of years (between 15-20 million for 2-3 years past arbitration) and when he rejects it the Brewers see what the Market Value is for him.  If the Giants, Red Sox, Rangers, or Braves want to empty their farm system for him the Brewers should definitely think about it. 

The Guys trade Value will never be higher than after an MVP type season with 2 years left on the contract.  I was the guy last year saying you definitely don't trade Prince right now because his Value is so low and telling people that Prince was easily the best hitter on the team which people usually laughed and said No Ryan Braun was easily the best.  To be a successful small market franchise the best way to win is to maximize assets. 

Like I said earlier in the thread If the Giants offered Madison Bumgarner, Buster Posey, and Tim Alderson plus another low level prospect with High upside the Brewers would have to take it.  

 

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

fmrmarinesgt97:

Here is a question.  Why would anyone have to offer that kind of deal.  I mean seriously.  If the collective thought across baseball is that there is no way the Brewers keep Prince past 2011, then why not wait it out until FA?  Why empty the cupboard to get a guy who is probably going to go to FA regardless?  Just playing devil's advocate here.

It's still 2 years of an MVP calibur player for a relatively good price without having to commit long term. 

Why is Roy Halladay worth so much right now? and his production at age 32 would probably not be expected to increase where Prince is 25 and his production might be expected to increase. 

I don't care if you think he is worth less than what I think he is worth.  It doesn't matter what either of us think he is worth.  However it would be really stupid to not see what his value is on the open market.  The fact that people can't understand this is beyond me.  Instead they just shut it out and say no!! there is no way we can trade Prince. 

Look at the trades for very good players under arbitration and tell me why the Brewers shouldn't do their due dilligence and see what his value is worth.  Texierra, Erik Bedard, and Josh Beckett deals would never have gotten done if the teams didn't see what they were worth. 

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

Has anyone noticed Prince is actually a better fielder this year?  Badger80 obviously does not.  He has fewer errors at first than God Almighty Pujols and has the 6th best fielding pct in the NL for 1B with more than 400 total chances.  He is not a gold glover by any stretch but he has improved alot this season.

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

BadgerBoy74:

Has anyone noticed Prince is actually a better fielder this year?  Badger80 obviously does not.  He has fewer errors at first than God Almighty Pujols and has the 6th best fielding pct in the NL for 1B with more than 400 total chances.  He is not a gold glover by any stretch but he has improved alot this season.

Yes, Prince is better fielder this year.  Unfortunately he is still not a good fielder or even an average fielder.  If you check out Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus, you'll see that his defense isn't that much better overall this year.

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

Who cares.  We'll never know what other GM's will offer for him if Melvin doesn't ask around.  There is a certain point in getting value back in which it makes sense to move him. 

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

Who cares.  We'll never know what other GM's will offer for him if Melvin doesn't ask around.  There is a certain point in getting value back in which it makes sense to move him. 

Just because he isn't being shopped like Halladay doesn't mean other GMs haven't inquired or made some sort of proposal.  Most GMs won't want to give up cheap, controllable talent for a guy who is getting more expensive.  It would need to be a team like the Braves trading for Teixeiria.  A team that thinks one impact bat will put them over the top.  Who fits that profile?  Probably just the Giants?

badger80:

BadgerBoy74:

Has anyone noticed Prince is actually a better fielder this year?  Badger80 obviously does not.  He has fewer errors at first than God Almighty Pujols and has the 6th best fielding pct in the NL for 1B with more than 400 total chances.  He is not a gold glover by any stretch but he has improved alot this season.

Yes, Prince is better fielder this year.  Unfortunately he is still not a good fielder or even an average fielder.  If you check out Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus, you'll see that his defense isn't that much better overall this year.

He has significantly improved.  The stats show it and he has gotten to balls better than last season.  I think you are selling him way short on this.  He is an average fielder but he appears to be working on improving so I do not think he is going to be a DH in 5 years ala David Ortiz.

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

Who cares.  We'll never know what other GM's will offer for him if Melvin doesn't ask around.  There is a certain point in getting value back in which it makes sense to move him. 

Just because he isn't being shopped like Halladay doesn't mean other GMs haven't inquired or made some sort of proposal.  Most GMs won't want to give up cheap, controllable talent for a guy who is getting more expensive.  It would need to be a team like the Braves trading for Teixeiria.  A team that thinks one impact bat will put them over the top.  Who fits that profile?  Probably just the Giants?

Giants, Braves, Angels, Red Sox.  And the list goes on he isn't just an impact bat.  He is THE Impact bat.  Right now he has the second highest OPS in the majors and he is just 25 years old.  I don't think people get this.  Outside of the Cardinals any lineup Prince enters, he instantly becomes the center piece. 

That is worth a ton in trade value.  I wouldn't be looking for a Beckett, Bedard or Texiera deal because I don't think that is enough in terms of prospects at the time of the deal.  Prince should be marketed as the best hitter in the majors and the Brewers should try to get back what the best hitter in the majors is worth.  Granted Pujols is the best hitter but going forward I wouldn't be certain of that.  If they don't find a Godfather package the Brewers move forward with him as their centerpiece.  What do they have to lose?

 

BadgerBoy74:

badger80:

BadgerBoy74:

Has anyone noticed Prince is actually a better fielder this year?  Badger80 obviously does not.  He has fewer errors at first than God Almighty Pujols and has the 6th best fielding pct in the NL for 1B with more than 400 total chances.  He is not a gold glover by any stretch but he has improved alot this season.

Yes, Prince is better fielder this year.  Unfortunately he is still not a good fielder or even an average fielder.  If you check out Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus, you'll see that his defense isn't that much better overall this year.

He has significantly improved.  The stats show it and he has gotten to balls better than last season.  I think you are selling him way short on this.  He is an average fielder but he appears to be working on improving so I do not think he is going to be a DH in 5 years ala David Ortiz.

 

What stats are those?  The stats I'm looking at (UZR/150) shows that he is the worst defensive first baseman in baseball when it comes to getting to balls.   Prince's -8.2 UZR/150 in 2008 is right in line with Prince's -8.1 UZR/150 this year, which is not showing a whole lot of improvement.  Prince isn't even close to average at getting to balls, he's the worst in baseball with only Nick Johnson close.

The area where I have seen improvement from Prince is with him digging bad throws.  He seems to have gotten better at that, but I don't have the numbers to quantify it so I can't say for sure that he has been any better.

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

Who cares.  We'll never know what other GM's will offer for him if Melvin doesn't ask around.  There is a certain point in getting value back in which it makes sense to move him. 

Just because he isn't being shopped like Halladay doesn't mean other GMs haven't inquired or made some sort of proposal.  Most GMs won't want to give up cheap, controllable talent for a guy who is getting more expensive.  It would need to be a team like the Braves trading for Teixeiria.  A team that thinks one impact bat will put them over the top.  Who fits that profile?  Probably just the Giants?

Giants, Braves, Angels, Red Sox.  And the list goes on he isn't just an impact bat.  He is THE Impact bat.  Right now he has the second highest OPS in the majors and he is just 25 years old.  I don't think people get this.  Outside of the Cardinals any lineup Prince enters, he instantly becomes the center piece. 

That is worth a ton in trade value.  I wouldn't be looking for a Beckett, Bedard or Texiera deal because I don't think that is enough in terms of prospects at the time of the deal.  Prince should be marketed as the best hitter in the majors and the Brewers should try to get back what the best hitter in the majors is worth.  Granted Pujols is the best hitter but going forward I wouldn't be certain of that.  If they don't find a Godfather package the Brewers move forward with him as their centerpiece.  What do they have to lose?

Sure, I agree.  I just don't think any team would come in with a package close to the value you want.  Prince isn't going anywhere in the near future.

I also think you're kidding yourself thinking Prince is THAT much more valuable than a Josh Beckett of Mark Teixeira.  A top flight starter in his prime will always beat out a power hitting first baseman.  Teixeira may not hit with Prince's power, but he .380-.400 OBP switch hitter hitter with mid-.500 SLG and he plays quality defense.  Prince's defense costs a team one win per season.  It's hard to do that at 1B.

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

The_Igniter:

badger80:

Teams are questioning offering that much for Roy Halladay, so I doubt the Brewers would get that for a 1B that plays poor defense and will need to become a DH in the (near?) future.

You can describe Prince any way you want.  The fact of the matter is he has a very good chance to finish second in the MVP balloting behind possibly the best player of the last 40 years who is having a career year.  He is very valuable and the Brewers would be foolish to not look at what he is worth on the open market if he does not want to sign an extension.  That doesn't mean they have to trade him.  Just see what he is worth.

I don't think the Brewers could get the value in return to make up for the value Prince Fielder gives them in their line-up

Who cares.  We'll never know what other GM's will offer for him if Melvin doesn't ask around.  There is a certain point in getting value back in which it makes sense to move him. 

Just because he isn't being shopped like Halladay doesn't mean other GMs haven't inquired or made some sort of proposal.  Most GMs won't want to give up cheap, controllable talent for a guy who is getting more expensive.  It would need to be a team like the Braves trading for Teixeiria.  A team that thinks one impact bat will put them over the top.  Who fits that profile?  Probably just the Giants?

Giants, Braves, Angels, Red Sox.  And the list goes on he isn't just an impact bat.  He is THE Impact bat.  Right now he has the second highest OPS in the majors and he is just 25 years old.  I don't think people get this.  Outside of the Cardinals any lineup Prince enters, he instantly becomes the center piece. 

That is worth a ton in trade value.  I wouldn't be looking for a Beckett, Bedard or Texiera deal because I don't think that is enough in terms of prospects at the time of the deal.  Prince should be marketed as the best hitter in the majors and the Brewers should try to get back what the best hitter in the majors is worth.  Granted Pujols is the best hitter but going forward I wouldn't be certain of that.  If they don't find a Godfather package the Brewers move forward with him as their centerpiece.  What do they have to lose?

Sure, I agree.  I just don't think any team would come in with a package close to the value you want.  Prince isn't going anywhere in the near future.

I also think you're kidding yourself thinking Prince is THAT much more valuable than a Josh Beckett of Mark Teixeira.  A top flight starter in his prime will always beat out a power hitting first baseman.  Teixeira may not hit with Prince's power, but he .380-.400 OBP switch hitter hitter with mid-.500 SLG and he plays quality defense.  Prince's defense costs a team one win per season.  It's hard to do that at 1B.

Again I don't care what you think and if Prince doesn't go anywhere in the near future that would be fine with me.  But Prince should be quiety shopped and the Brewers should see what is out there.  If the Giants, or someone else doesn't step up that is there loss.  Again I don't think people understand how well Prince is hitting this year or two years ago at 23 and 25 years of age.  Two years ago Prince put up an OPS .050 points higher than Teixiera's best year.  This year he is putting up an OPS almost .100 points higher than Teixeira's best year and that was with Teixeira playing in Arlington. 

Prince isn't just a good hitter he is a Monster.  As for Beckett, When he was traded he had huge injury problems.  He was a very good starter when Healthy but he was good for at least one DL stint a year and usually much more.  Prince right now has more value than Beckett did back then.  Even if Prince became a DH he would be the best maybe ever. 

I have a feeling Prince might be the most under rated player on this board.