My biggest problem with this team is there is a mentality in Green Bay that rewards mediocrity like Ryan Grant and AJ Hawk and we let guys who want to work hard and play sit on the bench like Bishop.  We give a free pass to losers like John Jolly and wonder why the team is imploding from within.  I was expecting MM to be a no nonsense, kick-azz coach a la Cowher but he is anything but.  He is weak and afraid to stand up to his players and demand more from them and greater accountability from his coaches!  He is letting this team and his future slip away...

etorkelson:

We can go with high risk/high reward Bishop or never risk anything/never make an impact play Hawk. Neither choice seems very appealing right now.

Theres nothing wrong with having a few safe, consistent, but not overly impactful players on your team.   Most good teams have these guys.  You odn't want a whole team of these guys obviously.  High risk/reward players on the other hand will cost you. 

Favrebesteva:

Also sounds like Nick Collins (pro bowler)

And Collins hurt this team again and again while he developed, and both of those first 2 years we weren't a very good team.  We were lucky to finish 8-8 in 2006 off 4 straight wins.  That only makes my point, if you are a young developing team with no realistic playoff chances, then you play the young guys and let them learn.  Unless you are conceding the season right now, you don't play Bishop.

prime311:

High risk/reward players on the other hand will cost you. 

Like Favre?  Sorry, couldn't resist.

prime311:

Unless you are conceding the season right now, you don't play Bishop.

I think this is when you DO play guys like Biship. 

St. Lou:

I think this is when you DO play guys like Biship. 

Cause you think so isn't a convincing argument.  

prime311:

St. Lou:

I think this is when you DO play guys like Biship. 

 

Cause you think so isn't a convincing argument.  

Let me put it in a way that you might understand: he might actually help salvage the season and get this D back on track.  Chillar is out for at least two weeks and Hawk has proven himself to be just average so what's the risk?  Maybe what we saw in the preseason with Bishop was an aberration but we won't know UNTIL THE KID GETS ON THE FIELD!

St. Lou:

Let me put it in a way that you might understand: he might actually help salvage the season and get this D back on track.  Chillar is out for at least two weeks and Hawk has proven himself to be just average so what's the risk?  Maybe what we saw in the preseason with Bishop was an aberration but we won't know UNTIL THE KID GETS ON THE FIELD!

With Chillar out Bishop should definitely see some playing time.  The risk is that an average Hawk is probably better then a mistake prone Bishop.  In the preseason Bishop played the same as he always has, some big play ability but not assignment sure.  What has changed about this guy?  He played the same way Sunday as he did in previous regular season time.  I might agree that he could develop into a great player, but I fail to see why you would risk a guy giving up big plays in the midst of a possible playoff season just to develop him and hope the light somehow turns on before he causes too many problems.

prime311:

in the midst of a possible playoff season just to develop him

Because I don't feel we are in the midst of a playoff season.  Is that what it looked like to you on Sunday?

St. Lou:

Because I don't feel we are in the midst of a playoff season.  Is that what it looked like to you on Sunday?

Fair enough then.  I think only 2 teams have been nigh unstoppable this season, the Saints and Vikings.  The Packers certainly don't look perfect, but neither does their competition for the Wild Cards.  And if you get hot going into the playoffs then you can go all the way.  

etorkelson:

swany11:

...he sure did lay an egg on Sunday. Again against Peterson.

From JSonline.com:

Bishop has to become less of a boom-or-bust player for the coaches to trust him. Though he's known to make big hits and force turnovers, he also takes too many chances, and that gets him in trouble.

Against the Vikings, he made a critical error on the screen pass that running back Adrian Peterson turned into a 44-yard gain late in the game. Bishop was supposed to play contain on the screen, but he bit too hard in the middle and allowed guard Steve Hutchinson to take him out of the play.

"He made one critical error at a critical point in the game that's unacceptable," linebackers coach WinstonMoss said. "That being said, it goes back into evaluating whether he's the best guy for that position going into next week. We'll evaluate that. We'll come up with the best scenario to see who should play the position."

Unfortunately, Swany I agree with you that Bishop looks out of his element playing in a regular season game ... another TT draft pick miss I guess. Now, as a longtime Hawk backer, what do you think it says about AJ when the coaches play a 6th round pick who blows coverages and does not know he is the 12th man on the field ahead of AJ Hawk -- the 5th pick overall in the 2006 draft?

 

Bishop blew it by going underneath Hutchinson on Peterson's 44-yard screen, hesitated on a blitz and cost McCarthy a timeout by being the 12th man on the field. He is a striker, but his game needs sharpening.

2. Can you ever have a conversation about any of the Packers...specifically LB's...without bringing up Hawk?

swany11:

etorkelson:

swany11:

...he sure did lay an egg on Sunday. Again against Peterson.

From JSonline.com:

Bishop has to become less of a boom-or-bust player for the coaches to trust him. Though he's known to make big hits and force turnovers, he also takes too many chances, and that gets him in trouble.

Against the Vikings, he made a critical error on the screen pass that running back Adrian Peterson turned into a 44-yard gain late in the game. Bishop was supposed to play contain on the screen, but he bit too hard in the middle and allowed guard Steve Hutchinson to take him out of the play.

"He made one critical error at a critical point in the game that's unacceptable," linebackers coach WinstonMoss said. "That being said, it goes back into evaluating whether he's the best guy for that position going into next week. We'll evaluate that. We'll come up with the best scenario to see who should play the position."

Unfortunately, Swany I agree with you that Bishop looks out of his element playing in a regular season game ... another TT draft pick miss I guess. Now, as a longtime Hawk backer, what do you think it says about AJ when the coaches play a 6th round pick who blows coverages and does not know he is the 12th man on the field ahead of AJ Hawk -- the 5th pick overall in the 2006 draft?

 

Bishop blew it by going underneath Hutchinson on Peterson's 44-yard screen, hesitated on a blitz and cost McCarthy a timeout by being the 12th man on the field. He is a striker, but his game needs sharpening.

1. I have a hard time considering a 6th rounder a "miss".

2. Can you ever have a conversation about any of the Packers...specifically LB's...without bringing up Hawk?

kegman:

How often does Bishop get to play?

A screen pass is a deception.  I'm not surprised that a guy who isn't playing all that much was deceived by a guard who is thought to be one of the best.  Read Nitschke's book Mean on Sunday.  He states that he was taken advantage of early on in his career on passing downs and screens because he was overly aggressive.  By playing he learned to make the reads necessary to become a great linebacker.

Bishop will never learn the subtleties of the screens and deception plays in the film room or in practice.  He needs to play, get burned, learn from that mistake, and not make it again.  At least, I think he needs to be given the chance to learn.

Bishop made the critical mistake?  Come on.  Jolly made the critical mistake in the first quarter.  McCarthy made the critical mistake at 3rd and 8 when he called a deep pass to make a splash.  The special teams made the critical mistake on every kick off return.

Bishop has been on special teams since he got to the Pack.  He's to blame for being a 12th man out there?  Didn't one of our coaches have the sense to tell him his responsibilities changed so he wasn't going out there?  With our great discipline do you really think the coaches informed him or just figured he knew?

BS.  I want Bishop on the field more!  Our linebackers do the wrong thing constantly.  It's not going to hurt if he doesn't improve.  It will help if he does improve.

When Chillar gets back, I'd like to see Matthews, Chillar, Bishop and Barnett on the outside.  Rotate Kampman at outside linebacker and defensive end.

etorkelson:

swany11:

etorkelson:

swany11:

...he sure did lay an egg on Sunday. Again against Peterson.

From JSonline.com:

Bishop has to become less of a boom-or-bust player for the coaches to trust him. Though he's known to make big hits and force turnovers, he also takes too many chances, and that gets him in trouble.

Against the Vikings, he made a critical error on the screen pass that running back Adrian Peterson turned into a 44-yard gain late in the game. Bishop was supposed to play contain on the screen, but he bit too hard in the middle and allowed guard Steve Hutchinson to take him out of the play.

"He made one critical error at a critical point in the game that's unacceptable," linebackers coach WinstonMoss said. "That being said, it goes back into evaluating whether he's the best guy for that position going into next week. We'll evaluate that. We'll come up with the best scenario to see who should play the position."

Unfortunately, Swany I agree with you that Bishop looks out of his element playing in a regular season game ... another TT draft pick miss I guess. Now, as a longtime Hawk backer, what do you think it says about AJ when the coaches play a 6th round pick who blows coverages and does not know he is the 12th man on the field ahead of AJ Hawk -- the 5th pick overall in the 2006 draft?

 

Bishop blew it by going underneath Hutchinson on Peterson's 44-yard screen, hesitated on a blitz and cost McCarthy a timeout by being the 12th man on the field. He is a striker, but his game needs sharpening.

1. I have a hard time considering a 6th rounder a "miss".

2. Can you ever have a conversation about any of the Packers...specifically LB's...without bringing up Hawk?

Swany, you have no problem drilling Packer linebacker Desmond Bishop on this board for his play yesterday, which I concur was poor. However, you have been one of Hawk's chief apologists and AJ is supposedly a starter and the 5th highest paid Packer. Why does Bishop merit criticism from you while Hawk does not?

swany11:

etorkelson:

swany11:

etorkelson:

swany11:

...he sure did lay an egg on Sunday. Again against Peterson.

From JSonline.com:

Bishop has to become less of a boom-or-bust player for the coaches to trust him. Though he's known to make big hits and force turnovers, he also takes too many chances, and that gets him in trouble.

Against the Vikings, he made a critical error on the screen pass that running back Adrian Peterson turned into a 44-yard gain late in the game. Bishop was supposed to play contain on the screen, but he bit too hard in the middle and allowed guard Steve Hutchinson to take him out of the play.

"He made one critical error at a critical point in the game that's unacceptable," linebackers coach WinstonMoss said. "That being said, it goes back into evaluating whether he's the best guy for that position going into next week. We'll evaluate that. We'll come up with the best scenario to see who should play the position."

Unfortunately, Swany I agree with you that Bishop looks out of his element playing in a regular season game ... another TT draft pick miss I guess. Now, as a longtime Hawk backer, what do you think it says about AJ when the coaches play a 6th round pick who blows coverages and does not know he is the 12th man on the field ahead of AJ Hawk -- the 5th pick overall in the 2006 draft?

 

Bishop blew it by going underneath Hutchinson on Peterson's 44-yard screen, hesitated on a blitz and cost McCarthy a timeout by being the 12th man on the field. He is a striker, but his game needs sharpening.

1. I have a hard time considering a 6th rounder a "miss".

2. Can you ever have a conversation about any of the Packers...specifically LB's...without bringing up Hawk?

Swany, you have no problem drilling Packer linebacker Desmond Bishop on this board for his play yesterday, which I concur was poor. However, you have been one of Hawk's chief apologists and AJ is supposedly a starter and the 5th highest paid Packer. Why does Bishop merit criticism from you while Hawk does not?

Seriously...can you have an honest conversation about a LB without bringing up Hawk every single time?