You look at this Packer roster.. and its almost like the days of Brattz or Devine.. and in the market for a complete rebuild..

 

No offensive linemen worth keeping after this year.. not one..  no running backs.. only one linebacker..  Driver is the only person on the roster that raises others to play like him.. Jennings, what has happened to Jennings?

the Corners are old and have maybe one or two years left at most.

safety has been a position of mystery..

 no backup qb..  two wiffs at a defensive lineman in two first round picks..

this Packer team is on the verge of a total rebuild..

that alone says volumns about Ted Thompson..

 

and the penalties alone, say that McCarthy has lost control of the team.

 

this is not a team "of the future".. its a team of the pasture..

+1

I disagree.  Although I am very critical of the offensive line, I think our problems stem from coaching more than personnel.  Hopefully there will be a change in February.

kegman:

I disagree.  Although I am very critical of the offensive line, I think our problems stem from coaching more than personnel.  Hopefully there will be a change in February.

While I disagree with you Kegman, I think a lack of talent is a big part of the problem, I think you may get your wish in February (2010 or 2011), because TT was signed to a lucrative K and he will throw MM under the bus if he needs to.

I believe the problem lies more with coaching than Thompson.

The Packers just make too many stupid mistakes.  Well coached less talented players don't make all these mistakes, don't play undisciplined, and get better results.  We could have better talent - so could every team - but we definitely should be getting more out of the talent we have and that deficiency is from poor coaching.

kegman:

I believe the problem lies more with coaching than Thompson.

The Packers just make too many stupid mistakes.  Well coached less talented players don't make all these mistakes, don't play undisciplined, and get better results.  We could have better talent - so could every team - but we definitely should be getting more out of the talent we have and that deficiency is from poor coaching.

+1 kegman.

Reg Dunlop:

kegman:

I believe the problem lies more with coaching than Thompson.

The Packers just make too many stupid mistakes.  Well coached less talented players don't make all these mistakes, don't play undisciplined, and get better results.  We could have better talent - so could every team - but we definitely should be getting more out of the talent we have and that deficiency is from poor coaching.

+1 kegman.

 

- 1 Did you watch the game last night, or the Pack game Sunday at all? New Orleans started slow, and then almost blew the game. Minnesota in the second half when they came out were flat, playing like it was already over. Even better teams have discipline issues, and those rest on the players pal, not the coaches. You cant teach dumb. Part of it may be coaching, but you cant baby sit players 24-7. Get a clue, albeit McCarthy's coaching is very questionable, most of that rides on the players and their attitudes, which may emulate from above, but it should be on the players to focus more.

bh1:

Reg Dunlop:

kegman:

I believe the problem lies more with coaching than Thompson.

The Packers just make too many stupid mistakes.  Well coached less talented players don't make all these mistakes, don't play undisciplined, and get better results.  We could have better talent - so could every team - but we definitely should be getting more out of the talent we have and that deficiency is from poor coaching.

+1 kegman.

 

- 1 Did you watch the game last night, or the Pack game Sunday at all? New Orleans started slow, and then almost blew the game. Minnesota in the second half when they came out were flat, playing like it was already over. Even better teams have discipline issues, and those rest on the players pal, not the coaches. You cant teach dumb. Part of it may be coaching, but you cant baby sit players 24-7. Get a clue, albeit McCarthy's coaching is very questionable, most of that rides on the players and their attitudes, which may emulate from above, but it should be on the players to focus more.

This may be one of the dumbest posts trying to masquerade itself as profound thought that I have seen here.  Discipline issues rest solely on the players?

As for the phrase "emulate from above," well that just about sums up the intelligence of the post.

bh1:

Reg Dunlop:

kegman:

I believe the problem lies more with coaching than Thompson.

The Packers just make too many stupid mistakes.  Well coached less talented players don't make all these mistakes, don't play undisciplined, and get better results.  We could have better talent - so could every team - but we definitely should be getting more out of the talent we have and that deficiency is from poor coaching.

+1 kegman.

 

- 1 Did you watch the game last night, or the Pack game Sunday at all? New Orleans started slow, and then almost blew the game. Minnesota in the second half when they came out were flat, playing like it was already over. Even better teams have discipline issues, and those rest on the players pal, not the coaches. You cant teach dumb. Part of it may be coaching, but you cant baby sit players 24-7. Get a clue, albeit McCarthy's coaching is very questionable, most of that rides on the players and their attitudes, which may emulate from above, but it should be on the players to focus more.

I believe that was Ray Rhodes philosophy and we know how that worked out.  In a perfect world, that philosophy might work.  It doesn't seem to work for the Packers.

If the coaches want to leave discipline and enthusiasm up to the players, they will be looking for new jobs.

I prefer these philosophies: 

"If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."

"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

"Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all time thing. You don't win once in a while, you don't do things right once in a while, you do them right all the time. Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."

 Go cry somewhere else judge, little baby. Your intelligence shows again, NOT. A coach can't be on the field 60 minutes and baby sit every player out there, moron. Who do you think has to take control of their situation? The players, numb butt. It starts at the coaching level but ultimately rests on the players shoulders to focus and remember what the heck they are supposed to do, act and so forth. This crap has been playing out for 5 years now, wheres the give it a few more years speech, you crotchety old fart.

the truth:

No offensive linemen worth keeping after this year.. not one..

Well, it's a little early to tell on Lang. Spitz and Wells are decent at center.

no running backs..

Agree.

only one linebacker..

Barnett seems to be playing a lot better then I remember him playing, of course Matthews has looked great this early on. The others are okay.

Driver is the only person on the roster that raises others to play like him.. Jennings, what has happened to Jennings?

Jennings isn't done yet. He's having Lee Evans syndrome right now.

the Corners are old and have maybe one or two years left at most.

Tramon Williams has looked like he might be able to replace one of them.

safety has been a position of mystery..

What's the mystery? Bigby has health issues, and Collins is super hot/cold

no backup qb..

Flynn might be capable enough as a backup. Hopefully we'll never have to get to the point where we'll have to find out.

two wiffs at a defensive lineman in two first round picks..

Are you really declaring Raji a bust after 7 games into the 2009 season?

this Packer team is on the verge of a total rebuild..

Completely disagree.

and the penalties alone, say that McCarthy has lost control of the team.

 No, it says that McCarthy needs better accountability for stupid penalties.

bh1:

 Go cry somewhere else judge, little baby. Your intelligence shows again, NOT. A coach can't be on the field 60 minutes and baby sit every player out there, moron. Who do you think has to take control of their situation? The players, numb butt. It starts at the coaching level but ultimately rests on the players shoulders to focus and remember what the heck they are supposed to do, act and so forth. This crap has been playing out for 5 years now, wheres the give it a few more years speech, you crotchety old fart.

 

So which is it, sh#t-for brains?  In your initial post you said that it rests solely with the players, now you're saying that it starts with the coaches.  "A coach can't be on the field 60 minutes and baby sit every player out there?"  Where do you come up with this stuff?  On the field is exactly where the coaches have to exert control.  It is in the locker room and on the practice field where the vets have to step up and make everybody accountable.

Obviously, intelligence doesn't "emulate from above" in your case.

bh1:

 Go cry somewhere else judge, little baby. Your intelligence shows again, NOT. A coach can't be on the field 60 minutes and baby sit every player out there, moron. Who do you think has to take control of their situation? The players, numb butt. It starts at the coaching level but ultimately rests on the players shoulders to focus and remember what the heck they are supposed to do, act and so forth. This crap has been playing out for 5 years now, wheres the give it a few more years speech, you crotchety old fart.

 

I'm not quite ready to jump ship yet regarding MM, but I've come abovedecks and am thinking about the railing. Mistake laden football, if it continues game after game, year after year, has to come to roost at the feet of the head coach. The continued problems with stupid penalties is very indicative of a lack of discipline. That is coaching, plain and simple. You make the statement that the players have to focus. McCarthy, and by extension, his co-ordinators and position coaches, absolutely have to hold the players accountable. Properly motivated (fear for job) players don't have mental lapses at nearly the rate we're seeing. TT has had some questionable drafts, to be sure. But the stupid penalties can not be laid at his feet, except of course in that everything must be laid at his feet as the GM. Including the hiring of MM.

I agree with the holding players responsible, but who do you bench? LOL We have very limited depth at most positions in question, so I think that handcuffs the coach in regards to benching players. If they don't tow the line, get rid of them, plain and simple, but I don't think we have that luxury at this point in time.

bh1:

I agree with the holding players responsible, but who do you bench? LOL We have very limited depth at most positions in question, so I think that handcuffs the coach in regards to benching players. If they don't tow the line, get rid of them, plain and simple, but I don't think we have that luxury at this point in time.

If I'm MM, Jolly doesn't see the field again that day, barring injury. Chillar doesn't play again after that stupid taunting incident a couple of weeks ago. Anything over one false start a game earns you laps after practice. (or whatever way is necessary to avoid breaking CBA rules.)Public ridicule in film sessions. Figure something out. Either it stops or the HC and his staff must lose their jobs. If this sh!t continues the rest of the year MM and staff must go. If TT doesn't do it without prompting, he goes too. It absolutely has to change.