If we continue to play at the consistent level (exception of the expansion Browns) of play we've had all season I don't see us making the playoffs.  If we don't make the playoffs you can look no further than the poor drafts we've had as chronicled on numerous other threads...  The man in charge of that needs to fall on his sword.  There is no excuse for not making the playoffs in a division where you're guaranteed two wins by default and you have a mediocre Bears team (not to mention games against the Rams and Bucs).  After this season we will have had 5 years under Ted Thompson with no real progression other than what now appears to be an outlier, 2007 (ie everything fell together from catching teams at the right time to lack of injury).  With that in mind a change needs to be made at the top and TT must go (don't even ask me who I'd hire cuz that's a jackass question... I'd hire myself if you press me on it as I'd have drafted better for sure:)

The next GM may decide to stick with MM.  He may not be the brightest bulb but he seems to work well with QB's.  MM will need some direction w/ regard to his assistants however.  The first person to go would be Campen and the ZBS, followed by Joe Philben who fools nobody and followed up by Winston Moss who hasn't developed one player since he's been here...  Oh, Can't forget that we need a new ST coach as well.  The next OC needs to have a mindset that we will be a run first team and we WILL protect Aaron Rodgers and not throw a "bunch of stiffs" out there in front of him.

Personnel needs: 3 competent offensive linemen including two tackles younger than Frankenstein (may need to delve deeply into free agency to solve this one).  A RB that defenses fear will take it to the distance on any run.  I want a young clone of Ahman Green.  FB, WR and TE are ok as they are now IMO.  We need 2 young CB's with talent to be work their way up the ranks.  You need three good cb's in this league and all we have is Williams behind our two aging starters.  A top notch SS to replace the disappearing Nick collins and some aging, cagy veteran to play FS with a young athletic backup to learn the ropes.

LB's:  Get rid of all of them w/ the exception of Matthews and Chillar.  Nuf said.

DLINE:  We need three big bodies who know their role is to soak up double teams and allow your LB's and SS to make the plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Special teams:  We need to once and for all take our return game seriously.  Maybe one of the young CB's that we attain could also return.  Also some competition for our current kicker will be in order.

Obviously we can't do that all this offseason but a good place to start would be to make it your goal to get 5 competent Olinemen and a better RB.  This in and of itself will help Rodgers and of course the defense will benefit from an offense that chews up clock.  Maybe we keep the defense somewhat entact and replace individuals as we find more talented players at that position...  Hopefully the drafting of the next GM will start to reap benefits in two years or so....  Enjoy...

I would just add that going from 15 sacks in 2007 to 34 in 2008....that should have been a clue for TT and management that changes needed to be made in the off-season with the O-Line.  Instead TT decided to draft 2 defensive guys in Raji and Matthews with their first 2 picks.

runningwithscissors:

I would just add that going from 15 sacks in 2007 to 34 in 2008....that should have been a clue for TT and management that changes needed to be made in the off-season with the O-Line.  Instead TT decided to draft 2 defensive guys in Raji and Matthews with their first 2 picks.

Well I think they maybe looked at that 34 sacks as being on an offensive line w/two new starters (along w/ injuries to the two tackles)... The disappointment is nobody has really taken much of a step forward along that line since the ZBS was installed....In fact, Tauscher and Clifton haven't been as good since they've gone w/ the ZBS...  As far as Matthews and Raji go they probably gave the new DC some assurances that they'd get him some talent to work with....

ptisme:

runningwithscissors:

I would just add that going from 15 sacks in 2007 to 34 in 2008....that should have been a clue for TT and management that changes needed to be made in the off-season with the O-Line.  Instead TT decided to draft 2 defensive guys in Raji and Matthews with their first 2 picks.

Well I think they maybe looked at that 34 sacks as being on an offensive line w/two new starters (along w/ injuries to the two tackles)... The disappointment is nobody has really taken much of a step forward along that line since the ZBS was installed....In fact, Tauscher and Clifton haven't been as good since they've gone w/ the ZBS...  As far as Matthews and Raji go they probably gave the new DC some assurances that they'd get him some talent to work with....

true i'm not knocking the draft picks per say, but since not much was done in the off-season with the O-Line, it doesn't suprise me that the Pack is having issues on the O-Line again this season. 

I'm fairly certain MM will be gone before TT.  The only way that wouldn't happen is if either TT sticks with MM too long, or MM does such an awesome job that he holds the position for another 4+ years.   

prime311:

I'm fairly certain MM will be gone before TT.  The only way that wouldn't happen is if either TT sticks with MM too long, or MM does such an awesome job that he holds the position for another 4+ years.   

 

+1

GM typically either goes at the same time as the coach or gets an additional year or two to let a new guy try it out.

 

runningwithscissors:

ptisme:

runningwithscissors:

I would just add that going from 15 sacks in 2007 to 34 in 2008....that should have been a clue for TT and management that changes needed to be made in the off-season with the O-Line.  Instead TT decided to draft 2 defensive guys in Raji and Matthews with their first 2 picks.

Well I think they maybe looked at that 34 sacks as being on an offensive line w/two new starters (along w/ injuries to the two tackles)... The disappointment is nobody has really taken much of a step forward along that line since the ZBS was installed....In fact, Tauscher and Clifton haven't been as good since they've gone w/ the ZBS...  As far as Matthews and Raji go they probably gave the new DC some assurances that they'd get him some talent to work with....

true i'm not knocking the draft picks per say, but since not much was done in the off-season with the O-Line, it doesn't suprise me that the Pack is having issues on the O-Line again this season. 

You're smarter than me...I kind of thought these young guys would step up...

prime311:

I'm fairly certain MM will be gone before TT.  The only way that wouldn't happen is if either TT sticks with MM too long, or MM does such an awesome job that he holds the position for another 4+ years.   

I'm sure you're right....The synopsis is what I would do:)

alstriker:

prime311:

I'm fairly certain MM will be gone before TT.  The only way that wouldn't happen is if either TT sticks with MM too long, or MM does such an awesome job that he holds the position for another 4+ years.   

 

+1

GM typically either goes at the same time as the coach or gets an additional year or two to let a new guy try it out.

 

History tells us in GB that's not the case..Braatz was ousted for Wolf after only 5 years...  TT's guys aren't developing...  He's already had massive asst. coach turnover.... If they fail to make the playoffs he needs to fall on the sword....

 Eh well, TT's made his fair share of mistakes, but he also cleaned up what was a disastrous cap problem, found a franchise QB, positioned the Packers with great cap flexibility, and has actually done remarkably well in trades and free agency when hes chosen to do them.  I think the situation could be a lot worse.  I'd love to bring in a guy who is going to find the perfect coach and do constantly well in drafting, but the greater likelihood is that whoever we bring in will be worse.  For every Ron Wolf there are 5 Matt Millens.  I just don't think TT's done poorly, or poorly enough to be fired, and I certainly don't like leaving what is a pretty good nucleus of players in the hands of an unknown GM.  MM on the other hand I am quickly souring on.  Thats my opinion anyway. 

prime311:

 Eh well, TT's made his fair share of mistakes, but he also cleaned up what was a disastrous cap problem, found a franchise QB, positioned the Packers with great cap flexibility, and has actually done remarkably well in trades and free agency when hes chosen to do them.  I think the situation could be a lot worse.  I'd love to bring in a guy who is going to find the perfect coach and do constantly well in drafting, but the greater likelihood is that whoever we bring in will be worse.  For every Ron Wolf there are 5 Matt Millens.  I just don't think TT's done poorly, or poorly enough to be fired, and I certainly don't like leaving what is a pretty good nucleus of players in the hands of an unknown GM.  MM on the other hand I am quickly souring on.  Thats my opinion anyway. 

This 'cap problem' cleanup is just a total fallacy - every team goes through that. You can point to Steelers and Colts recently. Great 'cap flexibility' means nothing if the guy can't do anything with it. I don't consider that an asset when he is below .500 in his 5th year.

He's been OK in his minimal dabbling in FA, but he's certainly had a handful of misses there also. His drafts have been terrible. Just terrible. We have two players, Rodgers and Jennings...the rest on offense have yet to make any impact  - average dudes - in his 5 years of drafting. We don't have an O-line nor do we have a RB despite using a #2 to reach on BJ. On D he hasn't drafted a single consistent impact player. He just hasn't, his best has probably been Collins, and we all know how up and down that guy is. I like TT as a person, I really do, but as a GM he is not getting it done.

ptisme:

If we continue to play at the consistent level (exception of the expansion Browns) of play we've had all season I don't see us making the playoffs.  If we don't make the playoffs you can look no further than the poor drafts we've had as chronicled on numerous other threads...  The man in charge of that needs to fall on his sword.  There is no excuse for not making the playoffs in a division where you're guaranteed two wins by default and you have a mediocre Bears team (not to mention games against the Rams and Bucs).  After this season we will have had 5 years under Ted Thompson with no real progression other than what now appears to be an outlier, 2007 (ie everything fell together from catching teams at the right time to lack of injury).  With that in mind a change needs to be made at the top and TT must go (don't even ask me who I'd hire cuz that's a jackass question... I'd hire myself if you press me on it as I'd have drafted better for sure:)

The next GM may decide to stick with MM.  He may not be the brightest bulb but he seems to work well with QB's.  MM will need some direction w/ regard to his assistants however.  The first person to go would be Campen and the ZBS, followed by Joe Philben who fools nobody and followed up by Winston Moss who hasn't developed one player since he's been here...  Oh, Can't forget that we need a new ST coach as well.  The next OC needs to have a mindset that we will be a run first team and we WILL protect Aaron Rodgers and not throw a "bunch of stiffs" out there in front of him.

Personnel needs: 3 competent offensive linemen including two tackles younger than Frankenstein (may need to delve deeply into free agency to solve this one).  A RB that defenses fear will take it to the distance on any run.  I want a young clone of Ahman Green.  FB, WR and TE are ok as they are now IMO.  We need 2 young CB's with talent to be work their way up the ranks.  You need three good cb's in this league and all we have is Williams behind our two aging starters.  A top notch SS to replace the disappearing Nick collins and some aging, cagy veteran to play FS with a young athletic backup to learn the ropes.

LB's:  Get rid of all of them w/ the exception of Matthews and Chillar.  Nuf said.

DLINE:  We need three big bodies who know their role is to soak up double teams and allow your LB's and SS to make the plays behind the line of scrimmage.

Special teams:  We need to once and for all take our return game seriously.  Maybe one of the young CB's that we attain could also return.  Also some competition for our current kicker will be in order.

Obviously we can't do that all this offseason but a good place to start would be to make it your goal to get 5 competent Olinemen and a better RB.  This in and of itself will help Rodgers and of course the defense will benefit from an offense that chews up clock.  Maybe we keep the defense somewhat entact and replace individuals as we find more talented players at that position...  Hopefully the drafting of the next GM will start to reap benefits in two years or so....  Enjoy...

In response to your post, which basically seeks to clear the roster of dead wood, I suggest the following Packers may well not be back in 10': QB = Brohm, RB = Lumpkin, Wynn, Jackson, Green, Hall; OL = Giancomini, Barbre, Clifton, Tauscher, Colledge (he and Spitz are FAs and do we really want both of them?); DL = Pickett, Montgomery; LB = Poppinga, Thompson, Chillar (he will be a FA), Hawk (huge, huge salary in 10); DBs = Giardano, Bush, Collins (free agent), Martin, STs = Kapinos. The question is, other than possibly Clifton/Tauscher and PICKETT, Collins, and CHILLAR, would we miss any of them?

 Pt - great post.  Just great.  Agree w/ 99% of it.  However, if they bring in a new GM I have to believe McCarthy would lose his job too.

prime311:

I think the situation could be a lot worse

True but the NFL is about winning championships... 

prime311:

I'd love to bring in a guy who is going to find the perfect coach and do constantly well in drafting, but the greater likelihood is that whoever we bring in will be worse. 

So you're happy w/ mediocrity?  What happened to the spirit of change? 

prime311:

or poorly enough to be fired, and I certainly don't like leaving what is a pretty good nucleus of players in the hands of an unknown GM

Name me this nucleus?  We have 3 nice young players on this team: Rodgers, Jennings and Matthews... The rest are either not developing or getting up there as we look forward...

CalValleyFan:

I like TT as a person, I really do,

Really?