Ok someone wanted it explained why TT isn't at fault for the oline.  Here you go.  TT's failure to address the guard situation in 2005 was directly reflected in our 4-12 record.  To this date I still think that was the biggest mistake TT ever made(2nd was releasing Ryan for Frost).  That said since that time TT has drafted 1 2nd rounder, 1 3rd, 4 4ths, and 3 5th round OLineman.  Furthermore, the guys he drafted were ZBS guys, ones with the body type to fit the scheme MM wanted to run.  Now I don't care how bad someone might be at evaluating lineman, I just can't believe that out of that many players the coaching staff couldnt find or develop 1 competent tackle out of the whole group.  I can't believe that TT couldn't have stumbled on at least 1 good tackle out of the bunch out of blind luck.  How can you possibly say TT is at fault for the Oline?  If the coaching staff is given 9 players over 4 years for their system and can't make 1 of them into a good tackle then that coaching staff sucks. 

 Larry Beightol seemed to turn all of his prospects into decent, hard-nosed linemen.  MM's choice of assistants on both sides of the ball have not turned out well to this point.  Odds are that getting one good o-line coach might work better than getting rid of 5 o-linemen--but that probably should have been done after last year's disaster.

JBlood24:

 Larry Beightol seemed to turn all of his prospects into decent, hard-nosed linemen.  MM's choice of assistants on both sides of the ball have not turned out well to this point.  Odds are that getting one good o-line coach might work better than getting rid of 5 o-linemen--but that probably should have been done after last year's disaster.

Except that the O-line, and offense in general wasn't "a disaster" last year. The team had the 8th ranked offense in the league, better than Dallas, Indianapolis and San Diego, hardly disaster territory. The sack total for the year was 34, not spectacular, but not horrible for a team with a 1st year starting QB, either (Matt Cassel went down 47 last year).

They had a 1200 yard rusher, who played hurt the first 5 games of the year, and the team averaged 4.1 yd/carry. Again not disaster numbers. 

The only problem they came out of the year with was needing a right tackle. They thought they had one in Barbre and I agree with everyone that hasn't worked out well. But who were the free agents available that weren't overpaid by the teams that took them. 

aegisfc:

The only problem they came out of the year with was needing a right tackle. They thought they had one in Barbre and I agree with everyone that hasn't worked out well. But who were the free agents available that weren't overpaid by the teams that took them. 

 From Silverstein's latest chat:

• Q: James, North Prairie, WI - Hey Tom, regarding OLine coach James Campen if things don't improve in the 2nd half, is he in trouble? Or from your perspective has he just been handed guys who have limited celings on how good they can be? It just seemed under Larry Beightol that guys got better as they got more experience, this has been like an expansion team's line - somethings gotta give - is it the coach or the players for this important part of any football team?
• A: Tom Silverstein - It's really hard to pin it on one person. Is it Ted Thompson for drafting average players? Is it on Mike McCarthy for never establishing the run? Is it on Campen for not getting the young players to develop? I kind of see it as a three-way combination. It wouldn't be so bad if it were just one of those things, but two or three things might be at work here. I haven't heard players complain about Campen or the way he teaches. He's got a pretty competent assistant in Jerry Fontenot and offensive coordinator Joe Philbin has coached offensive line also. It just might be the players.

Repeat for emphasis, "It just might be the players."

shipitdear:

Repeat for emphasis, "It just might be the players."

Or it might be the coach....Two can play the devils advocate on this one.

I tend to agree with the starter on the thread.  If you draft that many O lineman, you should hit on one.

 I am leaning towards players. You can't be that bad of a coach and survive in the league, at least we hope, to have that many players come through and not have any come through for you. It doesn't take 2 - 4 years to become a player in the league. If you got it, you will develop progressively through that time, if you don't , you have problems. That is why some teams put a premium on the o-line, and pay the price, good to great lineman are hard to come by, and are a very valuable asset to any team. Our hero, tightwad ted thinks differently, that we can do it at the blue light special line, which is 100% on him. 

bh1:

 That is why some teams put a premium on the o-line, and pay the price, good to great lineman are hard to come by, and are a very valuable asset to any team. Our hero, tightwad ted thinks differently, that we can do it at the blue light special line, which is 100% on him. 

I'm still pissed TT didnt draft Oher instead of Raji.

aegisfc:

JBlood24:

 Larry Beightol seemed to turn all of his prospects into decent, hard-nosed linemen.  MM's choice of assistants on both sides of the ball have not turned out well to this point.  Odds are that getting one good o-line coach might work better than getting rid of 5 o-linemen--but that probably should have been done after last year's disaster.

 

Except that the O-line, and offense in general wasn't "a disaster" last year. The team had the 8th ranked offense in the league, better than Dallas, Indianapolis and San Diego, hardly disaster territory. The sack total for the year was 34, not spectacular, but not horrible for a team with a 1st year starting QB, either (Matt Cassel went down 47 last year).

They had a 1200 yard rusher, who played hurt the first 5 games of the year, and the team averaged 4.1 yd/carry. Again not disaster numbers. 

The only problem they came out of the year with was needing a right tackle. They thought they had one in Barbre and I agree with everyone that hasn't worked out well. But who were the free agents available that weren't overpaid by the teams that took them. 

so this year is looking the same.....so why all the hype about how much work the O-Line needs?  GB is on pace to have over 50 sacks this season.  You don't think that this is alarming? 

yourout:

I'm still pissed TT didnt draft Oher instead of Raji.

I'm with you on this one. Read the book "The Blindside" and you will see just how important a good LT is in the NFL now.

As far as the OL issue goes, I tend to think this has more to do with coaching than the players. I find it hard to believe that TT and his college scouts missed that badly on every lineman they ever drafted. These guys have not improved at all. If anything they have regressed. That is not the sign of good coaching. I really have no idea how Campen survived the coaching purge last year or how he still has a job!

That being said TT's #1 objective next year better be to improve both lines on this team. Just doing this throught the draft probably won't cut it anymore. Time for him to sign a FA or 2 to help this team!

 I'm not convinced its the coaching alone.  I think ZBS is a freaking travesty of a system that we never shouldve gone to and only a couple of elite coaches can actually teach it well enough to be effective.  So maybe its all coaching because MM chose the ZBS, but Campen might do a fine job if he wasn't being forced to teach a system he never even played in.  I've yet to see any reason to doubt that if your name is not Alex Gibbs then you shouldn't be teaching ZBS. 

yourout:

I'm still pissed TT didnt draft Oher instead of Raji.

Its hard to fault TT taking Raji, in terms of needs NT was pretty high.  At the time I think Clifton was someone that could be counted on more then Pickett to both stay healthy and play a full game.  I'm sure the idea coming out of the draft was to try to work Lang in at tackle in case Clifton got hurt, but sometime shortly coming into TC that fell to the wayside.  Now I find myself hoping we draft a stud tackle early and hope he and Lang work out.  Barbre would probably make a capable backup and maybe a starter down the road, but for now he just isnt good enough and the rest of the line isn't strong enough to cover his deficiencies in pass coverage. 

Pack Attack:

That being said TT's #1 objective next year better be to improve both lines on this team. Just doing this throught the draft probably won't cut it anymore. Time for him to sign a FA or 2 to help this team!

No question, PA.  What gives me pause is that solidifying the lines should probably be a primary objective in most years of any team's draft and yet we're still left with what we have right now.  How did it come to this?

prime311:

 I'm not convinced its the coaching alone.  I think ZBS is a freaking travesty of a system that we never shouldve gone to and only a couple of elite coaches can actually teach it well enough to be effective.  So maybe its all coaching because MM chose the ZBS, but Campen might do a fine job if he wasn't being forced to teach a system he never even played in.  I've yet to see any reason to doubt that if your name is not Alex Gibbs then you shouldn't be teaching ZBS. 

Jagodzinski seemed to know what he was doing after spending time with Gibbs in Atlanta.  I wish he were back in Green Bay. Either that, or exhume Vince.