Einsteinhood:

TheDude:

Einsteinhood:

But I believe he said that Lowrie was the better player, which is what I was disagreeing with.

So you think he will be a better player or that if we put both players out there now that Hardy would be better?

I think Hardy is going to be better for the next few (3-5) years overall. Lowrie will probably have a better performance or two in there, but the overall trend will be Hardy as better. Then Hardy will decline before Lowrie obviously and push the edge to him.

For the record, although I agree that Hardy probably needed to be traded, I expect that he will perform closer to his 2008 numbers than his 2009 numbers in Minnesota.  I therefore expect he will be better than Lowrie for the next several years, which is all the further out I am sure the Red Sox are even planning when they think about deals like this.

On a side note, the organizations failures to make strides with Hardy and Hall do not make me optimistic about what they'll do with Gomez.

Einy, If Hardy returns to what he was before this year, he WILL be the better player for the next several years. Lowrie, with the pub he will get playing in Boston, will probably be generally perceived by most fans as being better even tho his numbers will be a little worse than JJ

brewhawk:

On a side note, the organizations failures to make strides with Hardy and Hall do not make me optimistic about what they'll do with Gomez.

(Wow, I'm currently cheering a replay of the WIsco-Minny Hockey game on PBS.)

It's a mixed bag, at worst, I think.

brandx:

Einy, If Hardy returns to what he was before this year, he WILL be the better player for the next several years. Lowrie, with the pub he will get playing in Boston, will probably be generally perceived by most fans as being better even tho his numbers will be a little worse than JJ

What a happy day today. Just got back from traveling and someone e-mailed me the news. Did they move Christmas to November 6?  Cameron, Weathers and Hardy gone, $15 million+ saved, and the Brewers pick up some speed, and now have dollars to get real pitching.

I have to say, Doug has made a couple of good moves to start the offseason.

This is a good first step. I do believe Hardy is going to do well for someone, but he wasn't right for Milwaukee.

Somehow, I don't believe Carlos Gomez becomes the Brewers starting CF in 2010. I think we'll see the Brewers still search for another OF. 

Hah!

I know why DM wasn't interested in Bowden.

SeattlePilot:

Between Cam salary and JJ salary the Brewers cut almost 15 mil from their payroll.  It will be interesting to see what they do with that money. 

At first glance, not much value at all.  I bet JJ tears it up at Minny.  What I find interesting is the speed this team has.  Gomez, Weeks, Escobar can really run.  Hart and Braun aren't stuck in cement either.  But Macha has no inkling how to use speed at all.  Between losing Cam and JJ, we have lost a ton of power in the lineup.

Like Seatlle P.  said it will be interesting how we use that money.  Please find that hidden pitcher that isnt supposed to be out there (or 2)

alffan:

What a happy day today. Just got back from traveling and someone e-mailed me the news. Did they move Christmas to November 6?  Cameron, Weathers and Hardy gone, $15 million+ saved, and the Brewers pick up some speed, and now have dollars to get real pitching.

I have to say, Doug has made a couple of good moves to start the offseason.

This is a good first step. I do believe Hardy is going to do well for someone, but he wasn't right for Milwaukee.

Somehow, I don't believe Carlos Gomez becomes the Brewers starting CF in 2010. I think we'll see the Brewers still search for another OF. 

If Gomez isnt good enough to start for us than this is a bad bad bad trade.   Has Hardy really fallen that far off that you can only get a backup player for him.  Its not like he's got some 10 year 200 million dollar contract

Gomez doesnt get on base very much, but at least he makes up for that by not hitting for power

 Okay, so I slept on it, and I have a positive spin: the Brewers' defense will be fantastic up the middle, and that will hopefully help to rebuild the pitching staff.

However, the problem I keep coming back to is the offensive loss the Brewers are taking. The Brewers were pretty good up the middle last year; they'll be better with Weeks, Escobar, and Gomez on defense for an entire season, but the offense of Gomez, and maybe even Escobar (I am much, much higher on him than Gomez) leads me to wonder about how significant the defensive advantage will be and whether it is worth it.

Moreover, I am upset with Melvin for building a team with players without a manager that will fully utilize their assets. Moreover moreover, I am upset at Melvin for acquiring a player that has no offensive identity; it's not like Gomez is a light hitting contact hitter that nevertheless puts the ball in play a ton. Gomez strikes out nearly as much as Cam, and he doesn't walk or homer as much.

Even so, even if Gomez comes around, will Macha be able to use the speed of Weeks, Gomez, Escobar, Hart, and Braun together?

I am really annoyed because specific player or not, overall it looks like the Brewers are building without direction for 2010.

radio silence:

 Okay, so I slept on it, and I have a positive spin: the Brewers' defense will be fantastic up the middle, and that will hopefully help to rebuild the pitching staff.

However, the problem I keep coming back to is the offensive loss the Brewers are taking. The Brewers were pretty good up the middle last year; they'll be better with Weeks, Escobar, and Gomez on defense for an entire season, but the offense of Gomez, and maybe even Escobar (I am much, much higher on him than Gomez) leads me to wonder about how significant the defensive advantage will be and whether it is worth it.

Moreover, I am upset with Melvin for building a team with players without a manager that will fully utilize their assets. Moreover moreover, I am upset at Melvin for acquiring a player that has no offensive identity; it's not like Gomez is a light hitting contact hitter that nevertheless puts the ball in play a ton. Gomez strikes out nearly as much as Cam, and he doesn't walk or homer as much.

Even so, even if Gomez comes around, will Macha be able to use the speed of Weeks, Gomez, Escobar, Hart, and Braun together?

I am really annoyed because specific player or not, overall it looks like the Brewers are building without direction for 2010.

This is the most telling quote.  Fine, we are going with speed.  But than use it.  If you arent going to hit with power than get those extra bases another way.  Run, run, run

Einsteinhood:

cpk1994:

Analogkid:

The twins over the last 20 years have been better than the Brewers because they have been managed better from top on down.  They are a better organization.

I hate to say I told everyone so about Melvin, But I told you so. Why this clueless moron still has a job is a complete mystery. Unless Martk A. enjoys having his team flushed down the toilet, then it makes perfect sense.

Gee, you really hate doing things you do repeatedly. That must leave you a very hate filled person.

Oh, and thanks for this well thought out and detailed response to the issue. I expect nothing else.

alffan:

What a happy day today. Just got back from traveling and someone e-mailed me the news. Did they move Christmas to November 6?  Cameron, Weathers and Hardy gone, $15 million+ saved, and the Brewers pick up some speed, and now have dollars to get real pitching.

I have to say, Doug has made a couple of good moves to start the offseason.

This is a good first step. I do believe Hardy is going to do well for someone, but he wasn't right for Milwaukee.

Somehow, I don't believe Carlos Gomez becomes the Brewers starting CF in 2010. I think we'll see the Brewers still search for another OF. 

Wow, someone is hitting the crackpipe hard. You do realize that the speed doesnt matter becuase Macha DOESN'T RUN HIS PLAYERS, don't you?

cpk1994:

alffan:

What a happy day today. Just got back from traveling and someone e-mailed me the news. Did they move Christmas to November 6?  Cameron, Weathers and Hardy gone, $15 million+ saved, and the Brewers pick up some speed, and now have dollars to get real pitching.

I have to say, Doug has made a couple of good moves to start the offseason.

This is a good first step. I do believe Hardy is going to do well for someone, but he wasn't right for Milwaukee.

Somehow, I don't believe Carlos Gomez becomes the Brewers starting CF in 2010. I think we'll see the Brewers still search for another OF. 

Wow, someone is hitting the crackpipe hard. You do realize that the speed doesnt matter becuase Macha DOESN'T RUN HIS PLAYERS, don't you?

TheDude:

cpk1994:

alffan:

What a happy day today. Just got back from traveling and someone e-mailed me the news. Did they move Christmas to November 6?  Cameron, Weathers and Hardy gone, $15 million+ saved, and the Brewers pick up some speed, and now have dollars to get real pitching.

I have to say, Doug has made a couple of good moves to start the offseason.

This is a good first step. I do believe Hardy is going to do well for someone, but he wasn't right for Milwaukee.

Somehow, I don't believe Carlos Gomez becomes the Brewers starting CF in 2010. I think we'll see the Brewers still search for another OF. 

Wow, someone is hitting the crackpipe hard. You do realize that the speed doesnt matter becuase Macha DOESN'T RUN HIS PLAYERS, don't you?

Nearly every caller and voice on the radio has the opinion that this was a good trade mainly because it just got rid of Hardy.  I'm assuming Alf is a frequent caller into WSSP.

The fact that sports talk radio endorses the move surprises me not a bit.